How a CEO Advisory Board Strengthens Decision-Making, Leadership, and Long-Term Health
There’s an unspoken truth most people never consider about leadership: the higher you rise, the fewer places you have to turn. Expectations grow, and pressure compounds. And yet the assumption from the outside remains the same: you’re the one who should always know what to do.
But the leaders who endure—the ones who operate with consistency, focus, and stamina—rarely rely on lone-wolf instincts. Instead, they build structures around themselves that sharpen their thinking, protect their capacity, and multiply their effectiveness.
One of the most overlooked structures is also one of the most powerful: the CEO advisory board.
It’s not corporate governance, nor is it a peer group. And it’s certainly not a collection of names on a slide deck. Instead, it’s a strategic operating mechanism that influences not only business outcomes but also individuals’ cognitive bandwidth, personal health, and leadership longevity.
In this playbook, we’ll unpack how a well-designed CEO advisory board enhances decision-making, reduces the cognitive and emotional load of leadership, and strengthens a leader’s internal foundation—physically, psychologically, and operationally.
Watch The Episode With Anthony Moss
The “Commercially Lonely” Reality of Modern Leadership
There’s a term Anthony Moss uses in his work with global CEOs: commercially lonely.
It captures a very real experience at the top of an organization.
People surround you, but very few are positioned to challenge your assumptions. Many depend on your decisions for their livelihood. Some filter what they tell you, while others lack the context or altitude to provide meaningful pushback.
This creates a subtle but dangerous strain: leaders begin to carry the cognitive load alone.
Over time, this affects your:
Decision quality
Risk calibration
Stress physiology
Emotional bandwidth
Identity clarity
A CEO advisory board interrupts this isolation by replacing this silent pressure with an informed perspective. If everything filters upward to you, but nothing meaningfully flows back up to you, you don’t have a leadership ecosystem. Instead, you have a bottleneck.
Why Leaders’ Decision-Making Declines Under Cognitive Load
Decision fatigue is far from a myth. Your brain is a metabolic engine, and high-stakes choices burn fuel at an accelerated rate. When you carry uncertainty, strategic ambiguity, and emotional pressure alone, your system degrades.
Leaders describe it as:
Being “off” without knowing why
Feeling foggy in meetings
Second-guessing instincts
Struggling to articulate a strategy
A CEO advisory board improves your decision-making by expanding the mental surface area available to process complexity. Instead of internally looping through a problem, you gain external minds that are experienced, detached, and emotionally uninvolved in the outcome.
And the result leads to clearer thinking, sharper trade-offs, and more confident strategy execution.
The Strategic Advantage of an Advisory Board (Not a Board of Directors)
Many CEOs incorrectly assume they already have what they need because they have a board. But a board of directors and a CEO advisory board serve entirely different functions.
A board of directors:
Protects governance
Represents shareholders
Holds fiduciary responsibility
A CEO advisory board:
Challenges thinking
Pressure-tests decisions
Expands perspective
Offers confidential counsel
Supports the CEO as a human, not just a role
When built correctly, this board acts as a thinking partner ecosystem, essentially a curated group designed around your business model, your blind spots, your growth goals, and your leadership maturity.
As Anthony Moss shared, “Having the right advisors creates a transformational effect, not just on the business, but on the CEO who leads it.”
The Health–Leadership Feedback Loop
Here’s the part most advisory frameworks ignore: A CEO advisory board has direct implications for your health.
When decision-making pressure decreases, and when clarity increases, you reclaim:
Cognitive bandwidth
Emotional capacity
Stress resilience
Recovery windows
Every leadership decision is a biological event. Every strategic ambiguity is a physiological tax. And every ounce of unnecessary pressure competes with your immune system, recovery, and executive functioning.
In other words: Better advisory structure → better decisions → lower cognitive strain → better health → better leadership.
This is the overlooked flywheel.
Advisory Design: Fit-for-Purpose, Not Generic Templates
Most advisory boards fail because they are built backwards, starting with “Who do we know?” rather than “What problems must this team help solve?”
A high-performing CEO advisory board must be:
Fit for purpose and aligned to your business model and stage
Small but cross-functional
Experience-diverse
Unimpressed by you (crucial for truth-telling)
Focused on clarity, not consensus
Your board is not a collection of resumes. It is an engineered system designed to sharpen your thinking. If your advisory board always agrees with you, you don’t have advisors. You merely have spectators.
The “Best Use of My Time” Test
Anthony Moss uses a simple but powerful metric at the end of every advisory session: the CEO must ask, “Was this the best use of my time?”
If the answer isn’t consistently yes:
The structure is wrong
The composition is wrong
Or the conversations are too tactical as opposed to being strategic
Time is the ultimate executive currency. And your advisory system should multiply it rather than consume it.
Identity, Vulnerability, and the CEO Operating System
Most CEOs don’t struggle with capability.
Instead, they struggle with identity friction and the gap between who they used to be and who their role now demands they become.
A CEO advisory board accelerates this identity evolution by:
Creating psychological safety
Normalizing vulnerability
Offering perspective outside the emotional noise
Helping leaders zoom out instead of spiraling inward
Providing the right mirrors for deeper self-awareness
As Anthony noted: “To reach out means being vulnerable and many CEOs aren’t used to saying, ‘I don’t know.’”
But this willingness is a performance advantage. The leaders with the longest runway are the ones willing to evolve publicly, not privately.
Leadership Longevity: Protecting the Asset (aka…Yourself)
Your business depends on two assets: the company and the person leading the company.
Most leaders obsess over the first and neglect the second.
A CEO advisory board supports longevity by:
Reducing decision fatigue
Preventing isolation
Offering health-protective clarity
Redirecting energy toward high-value execution
Ensuring the CEO remains aligned, stable, and grounded
In the Executive Health framework, this is the difference between leaders who burn bright and leaders who burn out.
The CEO Who Leads With Clarity Leads Longer
Executives aren’t paid to know everything. They’re paid to make decisions that move the world forward—efficiently, consistently, and with conviction.
A CEO advisory board is a structural advantage.
It’s how leaders:
Protect their health
Strengthen their identity
Improve their decision-making
Expand their horizon
And operate from a place of grounded confidence
At the highest levels, clarity is capacity. And capacity is where optimal longevity resides.
If you’re navigating complexity without a structure like this, you’re competing at a disadvantage you can’t see and paying a biological price you don’t have to pay.
And with that said, if you’re a CEO looking to strengthen your health, capacity, and leadership, we work with forward-thinking executives who want to operate with clarity, precision, and long-term sustainability. If you’d like to explore what this could look like, reach out here.
Connect with Anthony Moss
Website: https://www.leadyourindustry.com/
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/anthonymoss
Book - The CEO Game Changer: https://www.amazon.com/CEO-Game-Changer-Advisory-Potential/dp/1989737951
Transcript (May Not Be Exact)
Anthony Moss
(0:00) There is an assumption that both teams hold and the CEOs or founders and entrepreneurs hold, which is they've kind of got to have the answers. (0:12) And so to reach out means that they have to be vulnerable and kind of go, you know what, I really don't know. (0:20) You know, there's several options.
(0:22) There are several ways we could tackle this particular problem, whether it's a growth opportunity or whatever it is. (0:28) You know, there's multiple ways in which we can do that. (0:31) And they all have pros and cons.
(0:33) And sometimes that's a real challenge for CEOs to then go, wow, you know, I really don't know what the right answer is here.
Julian Hayes II
(0:45) Anthony, thank you so much for joining me. (0:47) I know it is quite late where you are right now. (0:51) So I really appreciate your time today.
Anthony Moss
(0:55) Awesome. (0:55) Thank you. (0:56) Great to be here today.
(0:57) Thank you for inviting me on your show.
Julian Hayes II
(0:59) Yeah. (1:00) And so I'm curious. (1:01) I looked at your profile and went through your book, which we'll get into later.
(1:06) And you have an extensive career as a CEO in director positions, and you've had some in the US, I believe, and Australia. (1:15) So I'm curious, what's the biggest difference between the US and Australia, you think? (1:21) What do you notice the biggest thing?
Anthony Moss
(1:24) Oh, wow, that's a tough one. (1:26) Hey, you didn't give me any prep for that question. (1:29) That's a tough one.
(1:31) Interestingly, you know, I moved, I'm originally from the UK. (1:36) So I'm a POM, as the Aussies would call me now, I'm a POM. (1:39) And, you know, so moving from the UK to the US, where I was in the US for 10 years, and then Australia, you know, I kind of see those those different cultures.
(1:55) And it's interesting how, you know, in the UK, we're pretty conservative, we're pretty reserved. (2:04) And everything's got to be kind of proven, if you like. (2:08) In the States, you know, I found it was a fantastic experience, because, you know, the states are full of optimists.
(2:16) And Aussies are somewhere in between, you know, they're a kind of a little bit, they're a little bit American, and they're a little bit kind of, you know, this is a generalisation, of course, but you know, there's definitely some of that British sort of cultural heritage that's kind of infused in the organisation, in the culture as well. (2:40) And, you know, I guess, I guess, you know, environment wise, Australia is very different, of course. (2:49) But, you know, you can drive down a street in south of Sydney, or north of Sydney, (2:57) and you'll drive by strip malls, and I could swear I was back in a city in the US, you know, (3:05) so there are definitely similarities, you know, and there's certainly that heritage (3:13) in Australia, where, you know, those people that came out exactly the same way, you know, (3:20) how America grew, you know, 200 years or so ago, you know, that kind of pioneering spirit (3:28) sort of here, there was, you know, a lot for people to overcome, to survive. (3:37) So there's definitely, you know, some similarities in the spirit of each culture.
Julian Hayes II
(3:44) Yeah, so I'm sure that's brought you to have a unique perspective, in terms of how you even advise and even your outlook on business, just to be immersed in exposed to so many different cultures.
Anthony Moss
(3:58) Yes, yes. (4:00) Yeah, that's true. (4:01) And, you know, I guess, for me, it was something that I chose early on.
(4:08) And I do have to say, I guess, it's all kind of Western cultures, I haven't had a great deal of kind of exposure to more of the kind of Eastern cultures. (4:18) But I was very fortunate at a very early age, in really my first real job, I guess, was managing exports from the UK to Europe. (4:31) And what that meant was I had to travel Europe a lot.
(4:36) And it was the best job I ever had, because it was, it was really, it was all fun and a lot of responsibility. (4:43) But anyway, it was, it was, it was really great. (4:46) So I had the opportunity to, you know, get immersed into all the different cultures in Europe.
(4:54) And then, and then from there to then move to the States, which was awesome. (5:00) And that in itself is kind of interesting, because, you know, America's a, it's a continent. (5:04) So, you know, you know, the East is very different to the West is very different to the Northwest, to the Southeast, you know, there are lots of differences, cultural differences in the States, too.
(5:16) And I was, I was fascinated by that, and, and really inspired by it. (5:21) And I guess, so I kind of engineered my career to, I guess, to support my travel bug, to be honest, you know, I really did. (5:35) Because after I left, after I left uni, I bummed around Europe for a year doing odd jobs and stuff.
(5:42) And then I kind of woke up and realised, hey, how am I going to get somebody to pay me to do this? (5:47) I went back to college and did another degree that got me to the career I'm in now.
Julian Hayes II
(5:55) So I'm curious, if we go back to like the 13 year old Anthony, would we be surprised at what that 13 year old Anthony kind of was was trending toward compared to what you're doing now?
Anthony Moss
(6:09) Oh, yeah, I would say so. (6:10) I would say so. (6:11) Yeah, definitely.
(6:12) And I grew up in what's called the Midlands in the UK, northeast, just northeast of Birmingham. (6:23) And when I grew up there, it was kind of like a small village. (6:28) And now it's now it's part of the city of Birmingham and a big, big kind of conurbation.
(6:34) And yeah, so it's literally right in the heart of the country in the UK. (6:39) And you got to bear in mind that I know this is difficult for you in America to understand, you got to bear in mind that when we would go out on a Saturday or Sunday with my parents or something, we go for a drive, you know, if it was more than two hours, we had to stop, you know, and take a packed lunch. (6:58) Because that was so hard.
(7:01) You know, to go on a two hour drive, that was huge. (7:05) So when I moved to, anyway, I'll come back to that story when I moved to America and understanding the distances was just incredible. (7:13) So you kind of grow up in that kind of environment.
(7:16) But I was very fortunate to, when I went to university, I did a degree in history and politics, just because I was interested in those subjects. (7:28) And, you know, so I moved to a different town, North of England to Hull University. (7:37) And that was just a fantastic experience that really kind of opened my mind.
(7:40) The whole study, the whole, you know, environment, culture at university was awesome. (7:47) And I kind of, it really kind of expanded my mind from kind of growing up in this, you know, fairly, well, country, very country style kind of village. (7:59) So, and I think once my mind was open, and I started traveling, kind of that was it.
(8:05) I just wanted to do more of it, you know. (8:08) And I was always interested in finding out about cultures and put myself in the situations where, you know, it was kind of difficult to communicate and stuff. (8:20) And I just loved it.
(8:22) And I guess not everybody's like that. (8:25) But I mean, it's sort of, it infused my thinking so that really, now in terms of when I look at my career, which has meant I've worked in the UK, Europe, in the US, and now Australia. (8:43) And pretty much most of my career has been in organizations that have been focused on building international businesses.
(8:53) And that's kind of been my focus. (8:56) So, the 13 year old would definitely not have recognized that, would not recognize that at all, because he would have had to say, hang on a second, you mean we're going more than two hours? (9:05) Got to take that packed lunch.
(9:08) To now, you know, realizing time is different, we're a global, we're a global, every business is global today. (9:17) Once you're on the web, time differences are irrelevant. (9:21) You just kind of got to make yourself available.
(9:24) And yeah, different worlds from that 13 year old. (9:28) Yeah, interesting. (9:30) Yeah, I had no clue what the hell I was going to do when I was 13.
Julian Hayes II
(9:34) Yeah. (9:35) So, how did you get involved? (9:38) And I think I've seen that it's mostly services, manufacturing, distribution industries, correct?
Anthony Moss
(9:42) Yes.
Julian Hayes II
(9:43) Yeah. (9:43) What led you particularly to those industries?
Anthony Moss
(9:47) Well, again, I was very fortunate. (9:52) After I did my uni degree, I kind of sort of bumped around Europe and then I went back and then I did a postgraduate degree. (10:00) Actually, it's kind of interesting because I did a two year postgraduate in a very specialized course, which was called export marketing.
(10:07) And that was 50% languages. (10:10) So, we did intensive French and German classes and 50% business. (10:15) But the interesting thing about it was a two year course.
(10:18) And in the second year, the university kind of created a marketing company. (10:27) And we, the students, and there was a small cohort, there was only about 25 of us. (10:32) It was quite an interesting and innovative program back in its time.
(10:36) And we actually formed a company, formed an organization as such. (10:41) And we did market research for UK companies wanting to export. (10:48) And it's kind of sort of how I got my first taste.
(10:51) And in fact, I worked with a company, John Cleese's company. (10:58) I don't know if you know the name John Cleese. (11:02) Now all the famous kind of comedian from the Monty Python crew.
(11:08) And he had a training company doing video training. (11:14) And so, I and a couple of my other fellow students did a research program into the US, interestingly enough, to introduce how to introduce these products into America. (11:25) So, at a very relatively young age in my very early 20s, I was actually interviewing video producers and distributors in Hollywood.
(11:36) And I took a trip to Hollywood and got that experience, which was just kind of amazing. (11:41) Anyway, it kind of opened my mind, I guess. (11:43) And so, I was very fortunate to get that first role out of having done that course, looking after these exports in Europe for a UK manufacturing business that sold to distributors and kind of wholesale.
(11:58) And then after three years of doing that role, they basically tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, do you want to go and set up a business in America for us? (12:08) And I guess it was that journey. (12:11) And having done that for 10 years in the States, after I moved to Australia, I got a lot of CEO roles and then started my consulting practice.
(12:24) And then in my consulting practice, worked with a lot of manufacturers and service businesses too. (12:29) So, there's a lot more in my consulting practice.
Julian Hayes II
(12:34) So, let's dive into the book a little bit. (12:37) The CEO Game Changer. (12:38) I guess the first question that we always like to know from authors is, what was the inspiration to actually do this book?
Anthony Moss
(12:47) Yeah, that's great. (12:48) So, having been a CEO myself, I talked about moving to America. (12:56) So, when I moved to America back in 1988, I literally lived in a hotel, found a warehouse, hired some people, brought some product in and started flying around the country to sell it.
(13:12) And I had this, and I built this 45, this perfect plan that was a 45 degree plan that showed revenue increasing at 45 degrees, profit increasing at 45 degrees. (13:23) Didn't quite work out that way, but hey, it was a great learning point. (13:28) So, I did that CEO role there where I learned a hell of a lot as I built that business and ended up acquiring two businesses as well in that kind of process.
(13:40) Then I did a couple of CEO roles in Australia too. (13:45) And the reality is, the life of a CEO is kind of what I call commercially lonely. (13:52) And what I mean by that is that the CEO is the fountain of inspiration and motivation for their team, that a person clearly articulates the vision.
(14:05) They're seen as the leader of the organization. (14:07) And they're seen as a leader of the organization, not only just from their staff, but also their leadership team, their fellow shareholders, their fellow executive directors. (14:19) And even if they are reporting to a board of directors, everyone wants to know that the CEO ultimately has the right answer.
(14:29) And the reality is, and most CEOs have pretty robust egos and stuff, so they're pretty bulletproof. (14:36) But there are those times when we're tired, stressed, all of those things, or very complex challenges that CEOs have to face where it's tough to make those decisions. (14:49) And there are always that kind of environment where you can have vulnerable conversations within your own team when they're looking to you for answers.
(15:01) And certainly that might be the case with a board. (15:03) So that's a common trait for all CEOs to have what I call this kind of commercially lonely kind of perspective. (15:12) And I've spent my career working with what I call private companies.
(15:17) So they are typically companies that are kind of established. (15:21) They're often owner-founders. (15:25) And they might range from, I don't know, 50 staff to 200 staff, something in that kind of range.
(15:34) And so they're kind of entrepreneurial businesses that are often in growth mode. (15:42) And so they're not large enough, what I would kind of say, to have what I would call a fully qualified leadership team, people in the leadership in the business who have both deep domain expertise, but also broad commercial expertise. (16:01) You know, they're just not large enough to have that kind of expertise.
(16:05) So they kind of have to figure stuff out. (16:08) And, you know, there's really those two choices of you can kind of, you know, you can figure it out yourself and find your own pathway. (16:17) Or the better option is to have people around you, a network of advisors that have the expertise that you can't afford to bring in-house yet, and may also have been on the journey already that you're planning to go on.
(16:38) And that structure is what I call an advisory board, which is different from a board of directors. (16:44) And I can talk about that a little bit in a second. (16:46) But the point is, in my CEO roles, I didn't have an advisory board.
(16:54) I did report to a board of directors, which were different things. (17:00) But I've now established numerous advisory boards with owner-founder companies, built teams of advisors that are fit for purpose for those businesses. (17:19) And I've seen the transformational impact that that can have on those CEOs.
(17:26) And having seen that experience numerous times, and the value of that in better decision making, better performing businesses, less stress, all of those things, which are the challenges when you kind of run a business. (17:44) Having seen that and experienced that, and knowing that not many businesses use this structure. (17:54) So I wanted to create the book that kind of says, um, here's a structure for the right CEO, the right organization, I think can be a tremendous support to those CEOs to enable them to get where they want to go faster, and more efficiently.
(18:14) And, you know, in the most effective way. (18:18) And so I decided to write the book to kind of say, this is a great model for the right organization. (18:25) And, and it's actually not that hard to put together.
(18:30) So that's kind of why I wrote the book, which is to get that to get that message out there that I think for the right CEOs, it's an ideal model of advice.
Julian Hayes II
(18:41) Yeah, you, you mentioned commercially lonely. (18:45) And and also, you mentioned that a lot of CEOs kind of have an ego, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs as well. (18:55) And it's a good thing.
(18:56) It's necessary, especially when you're at, especially when you're at, especially when you're building something from the ground up, you have to have a little bit of that when maybe the outside world is not indicating what you're seeing in your head. (19:09) So my thing is, why is it so why do you think it's so difficult, probably, that maybe it is to reach out and deal with this when it's lonely, and you're dealing with all these things internally? (19:22) But why is it so hard for a lot of these leaders to kind of reach out and seek this support and help?
Anthony Moss
(19:29) Yeah, that's a great question. (19:30) And I think it, you know, it comes, it comes down to that point that I made that there is, there is an assumption that the both teams hold and the CEOs or founders, and entrepreneurs hold, which is, they've kind of got to have the answers. (19:48) And, and so to reach out means that they have to be vulnerable and kind of go, you know what, I really don't know, you know, there's, there's several options, there's several, several ways we could tackle this particular problem, whether it's a growth opportunity, or whatever it is, you know, there's, there's multiple ways in which we can do that.
(20:06) And they all have pros and cons. (20:08) And sometimes that, yeah, that's a real challenge for, for CEOs to then go, wow, you know, I really don't know what the right answer is. (20:17) And, and I think it's difficult, because, you know, those egos are there.
(20:24) And we, we naturally, a lot of people are not comfortable in, in being that vulnerable. (20:34) And, and yet, the advantage, or rather, like I say, the CEOs that choose to have an advisory board are those that are happy to be vulnerable.
Julian Hayes II
(20:44) Absolutely.
Anthony Moss
(20:46) And, and so the point of my book is to try to say, to those that might not consider it, because they don't want to be vulnerable, to kind of go, this is a great model for you, you should explore it.
Julian Hayes II
(21:02) So earlier in the book, there was these stages that CEOs can find themselves in. (21:08) And in particular, there was a state, there was a stage called the fighting for position stage. (21:13) And what does that stage feel like, on a day to day basis?
(21:18) And I guess, also, why is it so hard to kind of break free from that particular stage?
Anthony Moss
(21:24) Yeah, yeah, cool. (21:25) So yeah, I talked about there are four stages. (21:27) And we might talk about the other two stages a little bit later, too.
(21:30) And the first, the first stage is kind of starting out, you know, you're an entrepreneur starting a business, it's those first two or three years where every new customer is 100% improvement than what you had before. (21:42) And, you know, it's really, it really is validating that your product or service, you know, there is a market for it, all of those things. (21:49) And then eventually, you get to the point where the business has got some size, you've got a team, you've got customers.
(22:00) And, and you're kind of you can be growing. (22:03) But you're not really what I call breaking through, you're not a well known brand. (22:09) You are, you are fighting for the next customer fighting for that position in the marketplace.
(22:18) And the reason why it's challenging is because it takes capital, it takes it takes a focused team, it takes the right strategy. (22:27) And all those things are kind of hard work. (22:29) And it's very, very easy for an organization that that's that stage, to be not really clear about where it's going.
(22:39) And it's also where customers actually can drive the nature of a business. (22:47) So if a big customer comes to you in that stage and says, hey, can you supply this kind of product or this kind of service for us? (22:54) And at that stage, even if that product or service isn't quite right for what the organization can do, a large customer comes along and says, hey, can you do this for us?
(23:04) You know, most people are opportunistic and kind of respond to it and go, yeah, well, you know, we'll do that. (23:09) We'll go and do that. (23:11) And, but that might be a distraction, it might be the right way, but it might be a distraction that actually takes them away from really what their, what their vision is.
(23:21) And, and so I would say the reason why they can't break out is because there isn't that clarity of vision, there isn't that clarity of strategy. (23:31) It's about just getting more business. (23:34) And so the way to break out of it is to get that clarity of vision.
(23:37) Now, what does it feel like when you're on the inside? (23:42) It feels like a rollercoaster. (23:43) It feels like a rollercoaster because you bounce from the great highs when that new customer that you've been chasing for a while suddenly comes on board and you kind of go, wow, that's fantastic.
(23:56) And then you find the next week that the last, the previous great customer that we have decided to, decided to leave and cancel your product and services or didn't sign that contract, et cetera. (24:09) You go from winning the business to then trying to find the cash to support the growth for that business. (24:18) You go from having a team of people with you who helped you set up the business and get it to where it is, but you get to the realization that they're actually probably not the team that are going to take you to the next stage of growth, just because they don't have the skillsets that you can see already that you will need.
(24:40) So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a tough place to be and it's a cauldron. (24:46) And most CEOs are robust enough to try to keep going, but I would, I would suggest a lot of them get hung up in this, in this position and their business can grow, but because they don't have that, that clarity of strategy, they're not known in an industry for something specifically, but it can be a environment for them. (25:10) And that can go on for years, for many, many years.
(25:13) And in my consulting practice, I have lots of business owners come to me and kind of go, I started this thing five years ago. (25:21) I wanted to achieve X, do this, have this impact on the market. (25:25) I've ended up doing something completely different because two or three big customers helped me, wanted me to go and do stuff over here.
(25:32) And now I look at this business and I go, why am I doing this thing? (25:35) This isn't what I started out to do. (25:37) And kind of a way out of that is to help them get, re-clarify, you know, what that vision, what that North Star is, and to kind of get the right strategy, which is the next transition stage.
Julian Hayes II
(25:49) So I'm curious, what makes a advisory, some might think this, what makes an advisory board fundamentally different compared to say, having different consultants or even joining different peer groups? (26:04) I get pitched maybe every week or so to join this entrepreneur group, join this CEO group. (26:11) What makes it different?
Anthony Moss
(26:13) That's right. (26:14) You could join mine, Julian. (26:15) I host my own peer-to-peer CEO group too.
(26:21) And I do talk about this in the book, you know, all of those different models are relevant, right? (26:28) So, if you're an entrepreneur CEO in that fighting for position mode, the one thing to do is to get advice, is to get help. (26:40) Because just by having an alternative perspective, and, you know, really helps you think through and hone your own thinking around what you are kind of wanting to do with this business.
(26:51) So, you know, there are business coaches that can help you get clarity in terms of mindset and focus, which is fantastic. (27:02) You know, there are consultants that typically would come in and help you on a particular project, whether it's a digital transformation exercise, or, you know, some sort of mapping exercise, some sort of market research exercise, etc. (27:18) But they kind of have one blink of focus, which is kind of resolve that issue there and then.
(27:25) A coach can be very good for you, but they tend to be very general and kind of more around your kind of mindset focus. (27:34) An advisory board is very different. (27:36) Advisory board has selected advisors with the skill sets that your business needs for the future, but that you can't yet afford to hire staff with those skill sets internally.
(27:53) So it kind of gives you fractional access to that expertise that you need. (28:00) And there's a structure to it. (28:02) So there's regular meetings, monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, whatever that framework is that you kind of choose.
(28:10) But also that expertise falls out of what the strategic plan looks like. (28:18) So for me, getting out of that fighting for position requires a really clear vision and strategic plan. (28:27) And when you do a strategic plan, that always inevitably identifies the gap in capability of kind of what you need to be able to achieve that vision three to five years hence, and what you've got now.
(28:41) And an advisory board can fill that gap, you know, with the right skill sets. (28:48) So the skills of who you put on your advisory board fall out of what that strategy is and where the gap is in your own kind of leadership.
Julian Hayes II
(28:59) Okay. (29:00) So I have two questions on that. (29:02) I guess the first one is for the advisory board, are they getting, is the owner having to give up equity?
(29:10) Are they giving up equity or something to do this? (29:12) Or I guess what's in it for the advisory board?
Anthony Moss
(29:15) Yeah, so that's a model. (29:17) I mean, I'm certainly somebody who believes that. (29:22) And one of the opportunities from advisory board is it's a flexible model.
(29:26) It's not like a structured model, like a board of directors. (29:29) And that's why I really like it because it's got that flexibility that the CEO can stop it, the CEO can start it, you know, the CEO decides who's on it, etc. (29:40) So they've got that ultra flexibility.
(29:46) But you touched on that issue of kind of remuneration. (29:50) And I know of advisory boards where people have been on an advisory board and, you know, they're a very successful business person, etc. (29:59) And they just want to help entrepreneurs and stuff.
(30:02) And that's great. (30:03) That's fantastic. (30:03) It's really fabulous.
(30:05) It's fabulous for the entrepreneur. (30:06) But that's not what I'm talking about. (30:09) And the reason why I think that's great, but insufficient, is because there isn't mutual obligation, right?
(30:18) There isn't mutual obligation. (30:20) And I'm suggesting that an advisory board is kind of a professional body, you've got to have people on that advisory board who are vested in your success, and kind of want to make you successful. (30:33) So I think there has to be a remuneration exchange there.
(30:38) Now, one way you can do that, and certainly it's very, very common in early stage startups, and certainly early stage startups in the tech or fintech side of the kind of business to engage with equity. (30:52) Alternatively, you know, you can just pay fees for those members. (31:01) But I do believe that the remuneration creates that mutual obligation that says, you know, I as an advisor, I'm committed to your success.
Julian Hayes II
(31:13) And so I guess that's it. (31:15) You know, we slightly touched on the difference between the advisory board and the governance board. (31:19) And it seems like flexibility is a huge difference between having the advisory board and the governance board.
Anthony Moss
(31:26) Yeah, yeah, that's right. (31:28) And a couple of differences. (31:30) One is a board of directors is governed under company law.
(31:36) I'm sure this is the same in America, too. (31:38) And we have a corporation's law in Australia. (31:41) So there is a legal requirement, there is a legal framework for a board of directors when they are kind of looking at a company.
(31:50) So and effectively, the board of directors looks after the company as a whole, not necessarily the CEO, which is why you see CEO changes a lot. (32:00) Whereas an advisory board is focused on the success of that CEO and their business. (32:06) And it's a very much a commercial focus that is designed to help them get through that fighting for position stage.
(32:17) So unlike a board of directors, which has to look at all parts of the business and kind of says, you know, reputation, work, health and safety, OHS, and all aspects of the business, an advisory board can be very focused on the commercial outcome that a CEO is looking for. (32:39) I think that's a key difference. (32:41) And that flexibility point is, ultimately, it's the CEO that decides who's on their advisory board, what's the skill sets that they kind of have.
(32:50) The CEO decides the frequency of meetings. (32:53) And the CEO also has the choice, even though they've got even though they've selected the right kind of advisors, sometimes the CEOs are going to kind of go, yeah, I really appreciate that advice, but I don't agree with you. (33:07) I'm not going to do that.
(33:08) I'm going to go on this other pathway. (33:11) That's not the case, really, with a board of directors, it happens too many times, the board of directors can say, I think we want to change the CEO. (33:18) Whereas the CEO, the advisor has said, so they really kind of have that those advisors that they can kind of have, I'm going to take my challenge to this group of trusted advisors.
(33:30) I already have in my mind what I think I want to achieve, they can hone and help me hone that kind of perspective, or they might have a different perspective. (33:40) And ultimately, the CEO can say, yep, thanks, but I'm not going to do that. (33:49) Now, that raises some challenges, because if that happens at every meeting, either the advisory board is right, is wrong, or the CEO is wrong.
Julian Hayes II
(34:00) Yeah, that's how I would be thinking there. (34:02) And so, you know, I was looking at, you know, as I went through the book, you referenced some data about there was a 24% higher sales, 18% higher productivity for companies with advisory boards. (34:16) But, you know, and I was thinking about this, that I want to go beyond the numbers here, because I think there's a parallel with health as well.
(34:24) Because a lot of times, people may people may look at just something surface like this here of like, hey, how's my weight doing and all that. (34:32) But there's so many other good things happening that we know the plan is working. (34:37) So my question here is, what signals should a CEO look for to know that their advisory board is working beyond the obvious?
Anthony Moss
(34:47) Yeah, no, that's great. (34:48) That's really great. (34:49) So one of the things that I challenge CEOs to do, if they set up an advisory board, is at the end of every meeting.
(34:57) And I suggest the budget board meetings can be either monthly, bi-monthly, or quarterly, depending on scale and complexity of the business, etc. (35:05) But the CEO at the end of every meeting has to say, is that the best two hours, best use of my time for the last two hours. (35:15) So that's one of the key measures, which is, and if they come out of that and go, that was really great, because it challenged my thinking, I've got some new ideas, I'm really focused, I'm really clear about now what I want to achieve, what the pathway looks like, how I'm going to do it, I now feel great and confident.
(35:36) So end of every meeting is they've got to ask themselves, was that the best use of my time? (35:43) And hopefully, there's more times like that, and it's not. (35:48) But then of course, from an advisory board, it's all about focused around the development and implementation of that strategy.
(35:59) So the advisory board has to be helping and holding to account the CEO to stay focused on that strategy. (36:07) One of the real challenges for CEOs running any kind of business, certainly in that early stage business is focus, right? (36:14) Because there are so many challenges.
(36:16) There are people challenges, that person, that senior leader that you think is going to be fantastic, suddenly leaves and takes another job. (36:25) Your focus is caught on that, it's cash, it's marketing, it's trademarks, it's all of those things. (36:34) It's very, very easy for a CEO to, I guess, focus on the operational aspects of a business rather than necessarily the real structure of kind of where we're going.
(36:50) And it's interesting your point about health, though, too, because I think the advantage of an advisory board is not just for the CEO, because it sort of helps the leadership team as well. (37:03) Because once the CEO has that clarity, the advisory board can help the CEO in terms of the capability of the leadership team, the coherence of the leadership team, how effectively they are working together. (37:16) And, you know, I have seen, personally, businesses that have been unsuccessful, because there's a CEO that might have a great heart and a real passion, but it's just not good at making the right kind of decisions.
(37:35) And those businesses go out of business. (37:37) And that's bad, you know, because I believe that the business is a success, you know, the success of a business is not just in making the CEO and the shareholders wealthy, but it's all of the staff and the customers and the suppliers, there's an eco chamber there. (37:56) And for me, the passion of an advisory board is, if we can make those businesses more effective, that whole ecosystem develops and builds.
(38:06) Yeah. (38:07) So, so I guess those measures around health would be the link to health would be one, the CEO mindset, because they can come into a meeting, very confused, very challenged, lots of priorities, but then leave with a laser focus about kind of what they've got to do. (38:27) They get a real sense of, I'm not alone.
(38:30) There's other people that have experienced the same challenge that I have. (38:35) They've got the problem shared as a problem solved. (38:40) But they also then get the opportunity to look at their business in a dispassionate and objective way, which is very difficult when you're kind of inside the business.
(38:51) And certainly, you know, an advisory board is going to coach a CEO to go, you know, they're not looking after their health. (39:01) I kind of, I always talk about, you know, one of the jobs of the advisory board is they think of the CEO as their thoroughbred racehorse. (39:08) And part of their job is to make sure that racehorse is well trained, well fed.
(39:14) And, but that's just an analogy for the organization as well. (39:18) You know, if the CEO is in great condition, there's a very, very good chance that the rest of the business can be too.
Julian Hayes II
(39:25) Yeah. (39:26) So that was going to be one of my next questions was actually to go over that aspect, because I was curious if actually when we're having these advisory meetings, is like the CEO's health and resilience, energy management, all that stuff, is it part of the actual advisory board conversations?
Anthony Moss
(39:43) Yeah, absolutely. (39:44) Absolutely. (39:44) It can be.
(39:46) There's no question. (39:47) And when you sit in an advisory board, you know, you can tell when a CEO is really, really stressed, really stretched and really stressed. (39:58) And it's easy for advisors to see where a CEO is not in their best condition.
(40:10) I also talk about, in the book, I talk about what I call a CEO multiplier effect, which is, you know, the fact that everything that the CEO does and does not do in an organization is seen by everybody, and sets the tone for the organization. (40:31) You know, when the CEO kind of walks in the morning, and they're grumpy, they don't talk to people, you know, that sets a vibe in the organization. (40:39) When they come in, and they're upbeat, and they're energetic, and they're focused, that sets a vibe.
(40:45) So, I talk about that CEO multiplier effect as a significant off-balance sheet measure of success. (40:54) And so, the advisory board is to kind of say, hey, you know, you're really not in tip-top shape at the moment. (41:02) You know, you got to take that holiday, you got to take that time out, you got to take that, you know, do that health retreat, you got to look after yourself, etc.
(41:10) You know, you can't be working 24-7, seven days a week for months on end. (41:17) And there's no question that that has to be part of the discussion for the advisors.
Julian Hayes II
(41:26) Yeah. (41:27) You know, as AI is growing now, we have different global situations going on, and then there's always going to be new market dynamics that are going to accelerate various things. (41:38) How do you see advisory boards evolving in the next five to 10 years?
Anthony Moss
(41:44) Yeah, well, that's a great question. (41:47) And hopefully, they will be physical people as well as avatars. (41:54) But I have no question that, you know, that we will be using AI in those advisory board meetings in real time with avatars that have very specific domain expertise.
(42:12) You know, whether that is digital marketing, whether that is, you know, certain types of tech, whether that is supply chain management, etc., there is no question that we will be using digital twins that have specific expertise. (42:34) I just said, you know, how you create an advisory board is to look at your strategic plan and go, I really need that. (42:41) I really need that digital marketing expert, but I can't quite afford somebody who's had global expertise in that.
(42:47) I can imagine in 12 months or less, we can create those avatars that will sit around that room and help us. (42:56) And I see that as a tremendous benefit, a tremendous benefit, particularly for private companies where advisory boards, you know, offer the greatest impact. (43:10) Because larger organizations can already afford those resources.
(43:15) And that thinking and that people sitting around the table with that depth of breadth and depth of commercial experience. (43:24) So these are going to be great tools for those private companies, earlier stage businesses. (43:32) And that's another, I talk about the leapfrog effect quite a lot.
(43:35) It's another one of those kind of examples where there's opportunities for CEOs to leapfrog. (43:42) So I think it's really exciting, really exciting.
Julian Hayes II
(43:45) Mm hmm. (43:45) Yeah. (43:46) And so I'm going to pivot a little bit and go through a round of just some random questions that I'm just, just came to the top of my head.
(43:54) And so one of those is what was, what's one lesson that you would give to your younger CEO self from 20 years earlier?
Anthony Moss
(44:04) Yeah. (44:04) From 20 years earlier, it would have been, when I was, when I was a CEO myself, get an advisory board. (44:13) I didn't have one.
(44:14) I didn't have one. (44:16) I didn't know, I didn't know they existed. (44:18) I didn't know what they were.
(44:21) And, and, and, and I tried to figure it out. (44:25) You know, I read as much as I could, and I put myself in as many places, networking and all those kinds of things. (44:31) And I tried to figure it out.
(44:32) I figured it out. (44:33) I ultimately figured it out. (44:35) But that takes blood, sweat, and tears and energy and a lot of effort.
(44:39) You know, I talk about when I first started that business in, in, in America, after moving over from the UK, you know, I kind of worked, I did work 24 seven for probably the first three years. (44:52) And, and that's crazy. (44:53) You know, what I really needed to do, if I could think back, if I could go back to that time was to go, there's three people I know that if I'd have caught up with every two months, they would just push that business along, help me push it along.
(45:09) So it would have been it would have been picked those picked those perfect kind of mentors that can be my, my advisory board. (45:19) And, and, and again, I just, you know, we use I use that term mentor, an advisory board is like a structured mentoring program, you know, not the not the mentoring where you catch up with a buddy or somebody you respect, and you have those conversations. (45:34) It's kind of like having really experienced mentors, but who are who are structured to show up to meetings to deliver to read your information and contribute.
(45:46) So yeah, my advice to my 20 year 20 years ago would have been Yeah, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(45:52) So at this point, you said in dozens, dozens, dozens, dozens, dozens of boardrooms. (45:59) And so if you remember, I'm curious, what's maybe the most unusual piece of advice you've ever heard someone give a CEO?
Anthony Moss
(46:09) Oh, that's, that's, that's an interesting, that's an interesting one. (46:15) Aside from sell the company and get the hell out. (46:23) The most interesting piece of advice.
(46:28) There's, there's, that's a, that's a challenging question, but my mind goes to I, you know, I'm a, I'm a passionate advocate for advisory boards, as you can hear. (46:45) But sometimes they don't work. (46:47) And sometimes advisors don't work.
(46:50) And I talk about in the book about you got to have the right people with the right culture who kind of works with you, etc. (46:57) But it doesn't always, it doesn't always work. (47:00) I had an advisor been involved in where we had a gentleman who'd been very successful building and selling a couple of businesses, who was riding the sweet spot of where my client wanted to go with this with their business.
(47:24) And that person would sit in, sit in these advisory board meetings. (47:29) And he just got incredibly frustrated with the CEO, owner of the business, because he was, he could not make that transition from being an executive, executive himself, directing to advising. (47:50) So that probably doesn't answer your question.
(47:53) But it does, it does highlight, you know, that there are challenges with advisory boards too. (47:59) It's not, you know, it's not always a perfect scenario, and it needs to be kind of molded. (48:05) I'll come, maybe I'll think about that question again.
(48:07) What's the most interesting piece of advice? (48:10) You know, it's normally about, about doing things, doing things differently, and pivoting, you know, going at 90 degrees or exploring something completely, completely different. (48:24) I'll think of an example at some stage in the conversation.
Julian Hayes II
(48:27) And, you know, if this was like an alternate universe and you weren't building advisory boards, what do you think you'll be doing right now?
Anthony Moss
(48:41) Enjoying my passion for traveling, exposing myself to as many cultures as I possibly can. (48:52) Learning, learning from that and absorbing, and absorbing it. (48:57) You know, that's, that's kind of why, what I really enjoyed doing.
(49:00) Maybe I'd be, maybe I'd be a travel agent.
Julian Hayes II
(49:04) Well, these days you can, you can start, you can start a YouTube channel, be a travel blogger or something like that.
Anthony Moss
(49:09) You could, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. (49:12) You can do anything. (49:13) But I am thinking about setting up, interesting you say that, I am thinking about now setting up an advisory board podcast.
Julian Hayes II
(49:20) Yeah, no, I think, I think you should. (49:23) I think you should. (49:24) So I'll definitely hold you to that if you need somebody to do that.
(49:29) Because like I said, I don't think there's a, I don't think there's too many books on advisory boards and too many people that are really just like, this is their, this is their thing of advisory boards.
Anthony Moss
(49:41) Yeah, yeah, no, no, there isn't too much. (49:45) You know, I did that research when I was looking at the book and, and that's, that's why I wanted to kind of create this manual. (49:52) And so, so the book kind of like, you know, creates the picture, sells the sizzle of what the kind of the benefit can be, but also then kind of gets into a bit of a how to, to make it work too.
(50:06) So it's, so it's kind of complete. (50:07) And the objective of it was to demystify what this, what this model could, could be like, and how and what kind of transformational effect it can have on organisations. (50:20) So, so yeah, there's not much in this space.
(50:24) And that's my passion now is my mission is to get this message out to as many CEOs as I can get it out.
Julian Hayes II
(50:30) I'm curious, what is it that you enjoy so much about, you know, the advisory boards and even also hosting those, the peer to peer groups and those, those kind of connect meetings.
Anthony Moss
(50:41) It's seeing the transformation of the people and the success of the businesses. (50:46) That's the, that's the great thing. (50:49) So earlier on in my consulting career, I did a lot of strategic plans, facilitation for some larger organisations too.
(50:58) And that's really great. (50:59) It's a, it's a, it's a fabulous intellectual exercise to get an organisation together and a leadership team to scenario plan and think about where the options are, and then make some choices and go. (51:12) But the really interesting bit is seeing whether it succeeds or not.
(51:17) And, and that, and that's what you kind of get when you're kind of involved in an advisory board. (51:22) So it's not a one time session, it's a long term commitment to an organisation. (51:27) So seeing organisations develop, seeing CEOs develop, CEOs who all of a sudden their field of vision changes, their focus changes.
(51:40) And over time, they then look at how the business has changed, how their people have changed. (51:45) And I've got numerous, numerous kind of examples of that. (51:52) And people are less stressed, too.
(51:55) You talk about, you know, you talk about the link to the health scenario, you know, it can be very stressful being a CEO of an organisation, when you suddenly come into a room of peers who have similar challenges. (52:11) Everybody's going through some part of that roller coaster, I talk about the roller coaster, all the game of snakes and ladders, which I talked about, which is what it's like running a business. (52:21) And to see that journey over time, and people build successful businesses, transform themselves, is fantastic.
(52:37) And that's what I really enjoy. (52:41) Because I've also seen in my career, businesses that are not successful, and they're not great places to be. (52:51) They're not good for society.
(52:53) You know, when businesses fail.
