The Executive Case for Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) with Dr. Jason Sonners
Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy isn’t just for divers, hospital burn units, and professional athletes anymore. In our latest episode, Dr. Jason Sonners, clinician, educator, and researcher, lays out why more founders and senior leaders are adding HBOT to their performance and longevity stack. This post distills that conversation into a clear, no-hype guide you can act on.
“Oxygen isn’t the treatment—it’s the ingredient.” — Dr. Jason Sonners
Watch Episode with Dr. Jason Sonners
What HBOT Actually Does
HBOT places you in a sealed chamber where pressure is increased, and you breathe oxygen (either room air or enriched oxygen, depending on the system). That extra pressure allows far more oxygen to dissolve into your plasma, beyond what your red blood cells can carry, so it can reach tissues that are under-fueled or inflamed.
This is basic gas physics: as pressure rises, more gas dissolves in liquid (Henry’s Law).
Clinically, HBOT has long been used for urgent problems (e.g., carbon monoxide poisoning, decompression sickness, radiation tissue injury, certain complex wounds).
That “hard medicine” lineage is why the therapy is often misunderstood today.
Why Leaders Should Care
Most executives aren’t battling acute injuries. Instead, they’re battling what can be thought of as an excessive load: stacked stress, chronic inflammation, inconsistent recovery, and cognitive fatigue, amongst other factors. That’s where HBOT is helpful because it:
Improves cellular energy (i.e., mitochondrial functioning) by delivering more oxygen where it’s rate-limiting.
Lowers inflammatory signaling and thus helps tissues repair between hard pushes.
Supports neurocognitive performance through better oxygenation and downstream growth factor changes.
Pairs well with other modalities such as red light, methylene blue, NAD strategies, and cold/heat when the goal is targeted and the sequencing is correct.
Early human data also suggest HBOT can influence various hallmarks of aging. In fact, one controlled trial in older adults reported longer telomeres and fewer senescent immune cells after a defined HBOT block. While it’s not a magic wand and more research is needed, the early signals are interesting.
If you’re tracking biological age with epigenetic tools, note that testing has evolved beyond a single “age” number to organ-specific clocks (e.g., liver, heart, brain, etc). That granularity can help you see where your recovery plan is actually moving the needle.
A Pragmatic Way to Use HBOT
From our conversation, here’s a sane, sustainable entry point for healthy, ambitious leaders:
A focused block:
4-6 hours per week for 8-10 weeks, then pause.
Expect the “signals” (what labs would see) to change quickly and results (i.e., repair, improved capacity) to compound over the following 4-6 weeks, even after you stop.
Then maintain:
If you used HBOT to solve a specific issue (and it’s resolved), you may not need ongoing sessions.
If you used it to manage a chronic load such as autoimmune activity, relentless travel, heavy training, then rotate back in with periodic, lighter blocks.
“Biology rarely rewards shortcuts. The answer usually isn’t ‘more.’ It’s the right dose over enough time.” — Dr. Jason Sonners
Stacking (only if it serves the goal):
Mitochondria/energy focus: HBOT + red light + CoQ10; consider NAD strategies or methylene blue under supervision.
Inflammation/repair focus: HBOT + strategic cold/heat exposure; consider peptides under medical oversight.
Detox programs: HBOT is not a detox tool, but by improving cellular functioning, it can support efficiency while you’re running a well-designed protocol.
The rule: define the specific outcome first; then pick two or three complementary tools. Random stacks waste time and money.
Safety, Risks, and How to Vet a Clinic
HBOT has a strong safety profile when delivered by trained operators using compliant equipment, but like any intervention, it has risks to understand:
Reversible myopia: Temporary nearsightedness can occur during a treatment series and typically resolves after stopping.
Cataracts: HBOT does not create cataracts within a typical short series, but in individuals with existing lens changes, prolonged exposure can accelerate maturation. This is why proper screening and dosing matter.
Due diligence checklist:
Indications and goals: Be clear why you’re doing HBOT and how you’ll measure success.
Equipment: Ask if the chamber is FDA-cleared for hyperbaric use and, for hard chambers, if it complies with PVHO (Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy) standards.
People: Confirm the team has formal training/certifications in hyperbaric operations.
Protocol logic: Your plan should align with your goals (pressure, duration, frequency) and take into account your medical history.
Medical oversight: Especially if you have ENT issues, lung disease, or eye conditions.
Soft vs. Hard Chambers, Pressure Ranges (And What That Means)
You’ll hear terms like mild, hard, 1.3 ATA, 2.0 ATA, 3.0 ATA:
Mild/soft chambers (~1.3 ATA): Lower pressure; used widely in wellness settings.
Mid-range hard chambers (up to ~2.0 ATA): Common in deeper healing, intensive wellness challenges, performance, and recovery programs.
Hospital-grade hard chambers (often up to 3.0 ATA): Used for UHMS-approved medical indications; different dosing and oversight.
Pressure isn’t “better” by default. Instead, it’s better to think of it as a lever that’s matched to the objective, your health status, and the rest of your regimen.
Interesting Insights From Dr. Sonners Conversation
“Oxygen isn’t the treatment—it’s the ingredient.” HBOT changes the internal environment so your own biology can finish the job.
“My recovery started by accident.” A single 20-minute trial session after a year of stubborn nerve damage gave him the first “pins and needles” in his foot, and then a structured series completed the recovery.
“More time beats more tools.” Leaders want to sprint, but optimal health often requires an intelligent, patient, and repeatable cadence.
If you’re An Executive Considering HBOT
Start with common use-cases such as cognitive clarity during a heavy quarter, faster bounce-back from travel, or a defined repair block after pushing hard with your training.
Build a minimal effective stack around that one outcome.
Run a contained protocol, then assess your deltas with both subjective metrics (i.e., sleep, focus, training quality) and objective metrics (i.e., HRV, training outputs, or, if you’re already using them, epigenetic/organ-age markers).
HBOT isn’t a panacea, and it definitely shouldn’t be viewed lightly or as mere “biohacking theater.”
HBOT is a pressure and oxygen intervention with clear physics, established medical uses, emerging longevity data, beneficial general wellness use cases, and real-world utility for people who carry high cognitive and physical loads. Appropriately used with intentionality, it can extend how long and how well you lead.
This article summarizes a conversation with Dr. Jason Sonners and is for educational purposes only. It is not medical advice. Consult a qualified clinician or professional before beginning any new therapy.
How We Can Serve You
At Executive Health, we help forward-thinking leaders optimize their most valuable asset— their health—so they can thrive in business, lead in their communities, and be present with their families. If you’re navigating the pressures of high achievement and want to build a system for sustainable performance, learn more here.
Connect With Dr. Jason Sonners
Website: https://hbotusa.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hbotusa/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HBOTUSA
Book - Oxygen Under Pressure: https://www.amazon.com/Oxygen-Under-Pressure-Inflammation-Revolutionize/dp/1661251358/
Dr. Jason Sonners Transcript (May Not Be Exact)
Julian Hayes II
(0:03) All right, Dr. Jason, we were talking off screen here before I hit record, and we were just having a good conversation. (0:09) So I was like, you know what, this is actually a good thing to start. (0:12) Why do you love Miami so much?
(0:14) Because we were talking about this, and I love Miami. (0:16) And if there's something that can get me away from Nashville, Miami will be a second home, I think.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(0:22) Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be bad. (0:24) It wouldn't be wrong to have, you know, a spot in both of those places and go back and forth. (0:29) That's probably, one day that's what we'll do too, I think.
(0:32) You know, I think, number one for me, I mean, I just love being, I mean, that's probably why we are in Miami and not in Nashville, is I just love being by the ocean. (0:41) So like our whole family is just ocean people. (0:43) We like spending time.
(0:45) But, you know, the biggest reason, the reason we moved to Florida and the reason we moved to Miami was really what I would say, like our expression of, you know, health freedom, personal freedom, health freedom. (0:57) That's always been a huge component of my life, my practice. (1:03) And not that I expect any of my views, and I'm sure we'll get into some of that.
(1:09) As an example, working with patients, I would never say, this is what you need to do. (1:14) I say, this is my opinion. (1:16) You know, my job is to do all the detective work to figure out how we got to the place where we are.
(1:21) And here's a number of different solutions, pick one. (1:24) But they'll all get you to the same place, different pace, different speeds, different intensities, but we'll get there. (1:30) I don't expect, I don't put my own beliefs on anybody.
(1:35) And I don't expect, I guess I expect that back in return. (1:39) And so to be in a place where I know that we can live the life and the lifestyle that we want, you know, without being opposed, you know, imposed upon, that's really probably one of the biggest reasons.
Julian Hayes II
(1:55) Yeah. (1:56) And I think, and I think that's, you know, as I get to still learn, advise people and coach people as well, and even just life in general, the more and more I see it as my role is just to be a guide and just to ask questions. (2:09) And, and that's the best gift that someone gave me, because I had certain beliefs growing up.
(2:14) And someone gently, they didn't demonize me or attack me. (2:19) They just simply post a thing of, have you looked at the other way, you know, and just, and then that sent me off to do my own study and come to my own conclusions. (2:28) And I think that's the thing with health now is that a lot of times people want to tell you, like, this doesn't work, like the subject we're getting into today.
(2:40) I'm sure there's a certain opinion of this, right? (2:44) Yeah, there's a certain, there's a certain opinion of this. (2:46) And, but have they really looked at it fully?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(2:50) Or are you just going by kind of the headlines and what you see on what you've heard, what you know, what somebody told you 20 years ago, and you're just repeating, you know, exactly.
Julian Hayes II
(2:59) Yeah. (3:00) And so that's, I think that's, that's the, that's both the beauty and the curse with the world we live in now is that there's so much information there. (3:10) There's I think it's your responsibility to go do some further investigating if you need to, right?
(3:17) Don't just take this person's as the gospel, this person's experience. (3:20) We're in an end of one world with health and medicine now.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(3:23) Absolutely. (3:24) And I mean, to that point as well, you know, I would tell the patients, whether you decide to work with me or not, I mean, you're not going to hurt my feelings. (3:32) I would love to be able to help people, but it has to be a good match.
(3:36) And, and even if it isn't me, we all need somebody, we need people that we can trust that we can work with because not any, not any healthcare provider knows all the answers. (3:50) I mean, that's just, that's the reality. (3:51) And if you meet one that, that thinks that they do, you know, I'd run the other way.
(3:56) And so, you know, we have to be able to be collaborative. (4:00) We have to be able to work together. (4:01) We have to have open dialogues, open conversations.
(4:04) You know, if a patient comes to me with something, I don't know, I don't dismiss it. (4:08) I'm like, oh, that's not, you know, I'm like, oh, tell me more. (4:12) Where can I learn more?
(4:13) I mean, I'm on the same journey as everybody else. (4:17) And I think that that's important to find in a, in providers that you're, or coaches or anyone who you're working with is like, who do I connect with? (4:24) Who can I trust?
(4:25) Who's willing to say, I don't know, but I'll figure it out with you, you know, and, and you kind of take those journeys together.
Julian Hayes II
(4:32) Yeah. (4:32) I was joking with someone. (4:33) I told him, I think pretty much 65% of my job now is pretty much essentially a curator or someone that, that, that knows someone that knows someone in case we need to go there.
(4:43) Right. (4:43) Because I know, I know a lot of, I know a lot about things on a good surface level to at least ask the right questions. (4:50) But when you get really deep and granular, like I was like, okay, I need to go to this person.
(4:55) And so, and I think, so you got to know like what you know, and what you don't know and be okay with that. (5:00) And a lot of that.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(5:00) Be okay. (5:01) Right. (5:02) Right.
(5:02) And, and reach out, be able to reach out to those people, you know, for support. (5:07) I love that.
Julian Hayes II
(5:08) Yeah. (5:08) So, okay. (5:09) So I was doing some research.
(5:10) I saw that you're pursuing a PhD in molecular biology with a concentration in regenerative medicine. (5:17) What made you do this?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(5:19) Well, I was bored, you know, and at 40, you know, 41, I think is when I started to go back to school. (5:27) So, so I teach, you know, I went from (5:31) being in practice, you know, treating patients one-on-one all the time to kind of, you know, (5:40) hiring a bunch of other docs in my office and, you know, doing some internal trainings to (5:45) really figuring out that I could, I could help a lot more people if I could help other practitioners (5:51) develop their programs, their programming, their business, and their offerings.
(5:57) Hyperbaric happens to be one of the things, hyperbaric oxygen is one of the things that I focus a lot of time and attention on. (6:04) And it's one of the things I, I certify other doctors in hyperbaric medicine. (6:08) And so, you know, in that world at that level of teaching, and quite honestly, the level of questions that I get from the people who I'm teaching some of this, especially in regenerative medicine, some of this information is, you know, real time emerging.
(6:25) And so a lot of the answers to a lot of questions, unfortunately, right now is, I don't know. (6:30) And it's not just because I, I personally don't know, like we don't know as an industry. (6:35) And so I really wanted to tap back into that sort of rigor of the world of academia, although as a kid, you know, that was not my jam.
(6:44) As an adult, you know, I see the value in building my own, you know, thought processes, my own problem solving my understanding at the deepest levels possible. (6:55) So then I can help extrapolate, you know, some more of the answers to questions like that. (7:00) So really, it was that it was to try to get more of the depth in terms of some of the answers that people ask me, you know, questions on all the time.
(7:09) And the other was to give back to the industry, because as a PhD student, you're expected to do research. (7:14) And so I had some research projects in my mind that I thought would be really beneficial for the hyperbaric industry, and the regenerative medicine industry. (7:23) And so it kind of gave me that, that direction to really pursue some of that research and, and expand our knowledge base on these topics.
Julian Hayes II
(7:32) Yeah, and I think it's you also are helping people like, like myself, where we can use this research to, to, to kind of validate our points. (7:45) Like if we said, maybe look into hyperbaric in this situation, and be like, Well, I don't know. (7:50) I thought hyperbaric is just for like athletes like LeBron, and or, or hyperbaric is for, you know, issues like with my father, use hyperbaric to kind of he had some deep wound healing that he that he was dealing with in his foot.
(8:03) And, and so they would think, why would just a everyday person or even just like a, like a business executive, why would I want to use something like this, if I'm not a top level athlete, or a diabetic, really terrible, you know, it's like, in the hospital world, hyperbarics is severe, acute, and life and limb, literally.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(8:25) So like certain infections, where you're getting an amputation, certain infections that you literally may die from loss of hearing loss of vision, it's like, very, very severe. (8:38) And then we use hyperbaric. (8:40) At the same time, the total opposite end of that spectrum, I'm glad you brought that up, would be performance.
(8:47) Right. (8:47) And so you have these athletes that are using it from either a recovery or from a performance standpoint, and those are like, literally opposing ends. (8:55) But it's not my opinion, and we can get more into this later.
(8:59) But it's not because hyperbaric treats that wound, or treats that infection. (9:05) And it's not like hyperbaric is, you know, the treatment for performance enhancing, or it's not a, you know, I would argue it's not a performance enhancing drug. (9:14) Oxygen is simply an ingredient that the body requires for virtually every single process that the body is capable of doing.
(9:23) And under normal environments, like what you and I are at right now, you're limited to how much you can carry. (9:30) Hyperbaric breaks through those barriers or those limitations. (9:33) It allows the body to take a tremendous amount more oxygen than what is normally even possible.
(9:39) And now all of a sudden, if it's a healing issue, because you're very sick, we'll use the oxygen for that. (9:45) If it's a performance goal, and there's really no other issues for that oxygen to be used from a, you know, healing and recovery standpoint, well, then we'll get to use that for, you know, for performance enhancement. (9:57) But it should just be looked more simply as this ingredient required by every cell in your body, other than the red blood cells that carry it.
(10:07) And that provides, you know, the fuel or part of the fuel for all of the different aspects that our bodies are required to do on any given day.
Julian Hayes II
(10:17) And so this is a very niche subject. (10:19) And so usually, what I've seen with people in health is that usually there's some event that happens that usually springs forth in it to do. (10:27) And researching you, it's, you know, it's kind of the same thing.
(10:31) So you hurt your foot, right? (10:33) After a herniated disc injury?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(10:36) Yeah, so I hurt my back, but I had nerve damage in my foot as a result of that. (10:41) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(10:41) Okay. (10:42) And so walk us through that experience. (10:44) Like, what kind of state were you in that you're like, I'm just gonna go try this?
(10:48) Were you just like, hell, I didn't try everything else? (10:50) I might as well.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(10:51) No, not even. (10:51) It was a total, total accident. (10:53) So, you know, my wife is a chiropractor, I herniated a disc, she's treating me.
(11:01) My back issues as far as the herniation, we're getting better a couple two, three weeks. (11:06) And I was back treating patients and a lot of the pain had subsided. (11:10) But the way that the disc herniated, I was limited with how much I can use my right leg.
(11:18) And so there was nerve damage to my right leg. (11:20) I had a thing called drop foot, so I had lost motor control over my right foot. (11:26) And so, you know, I was working with patients, my wife was working with patients, my background before all this was nutrition, and even like personal training and kinesiology.
(11:38) So, you know, I was doing the right rehab exercises, stretches, I was eating well, you know, as low inflammation as possible. (11:46) I was taking natural anti-inflammatory supplements, like I was doing all the things I would have told any other patient to do. (11:53) And again, the back issues got better pretty quickly, but the nerve damage and the nerve issues really didn't budge.
(11:59) And so, you know, started acupuncture, massage, you know, I started looking at all these other tools, and really nothing moved the needle. (12:07) It was about a year and a half later, still the same nerve damage, still very little movement in my right foot. (12:16) I was at a conference where they happened to have, you know, all kinds of, you know, all the toys and the tools that, you know, you and I and the people that you I'm sure have on as guests, you know, with red light and sauna, all the different toys and tools were there.
(12:30) They had hyperbaric, but I tried it, but not because I thought it would help me. (12:34) I tried it just because it looked interesting. (12:36) I had heard the word before, I mean, this is almost 20 years ago.
(12:40) I had heard the word, but didn't really know what it was. (12:43) And so I just did like a 20-minute session, just on a whim. (12:47) I got out of that chamber, I started walking around the vendor hall.
(12:50) And about 20 minutes later, I got pins and needles in my foot. (12:54) And that was the first time I even felt my foot in about a year and a half. (12:57) And I was like, oh my God, am I feeling my foot right now?
(13:01) Does that have something to do with that thing, that pressure thing I was just in? (13:05) I had no clue. (13:07) So, you know, I went back and I spoke to the guy at the booth and he was like, oh yeah, that's what it does.
(13:10) It helps, you know, regenerate nerves. (13:12) And I'm like, says the salesman selling me the thing, you know, like, I don't know that I buy it, but he agreed to do. (13:20) So I did about another five or six 20-minute sessions over the next three or four days.
(13:26) And I left there with like 10, 15% recovery of my right foot. (13:29) So, you know, I did end up buying one. (13:31) At the time, I didn't think I'd use it in practice.
(13:34) I certainly didn't think I'd be doing all the things I'm doing today with it, but I really just bought it for myself. (13:39) I bought it just so, because it seemed like the only thing that hadn't even changed the nerve issue at all in that time. (13:44) And within a few months I had full recovery and, you know, I was completely, you know, back to running, back to exercising, and I've never had an issue in that area since.
(13:54) And so that was sort of the trigger that started waking up, like, how did I get this far in my life and my career? (14:01) You know, I had never even considered hyperbaric oxygen, yet it was such a clear moment of transformation for my issue. (14:11) I then treated a few other people, like close family.
(14:15) My stepdad was diagnosed with MS at a time very similar to that. (14:20) And one of my friend's mom had had a stroke years ago. (14:25) But in my mind, you know, I love to study things in the greatest detail possible, but quite honestly, my mind is very simple.
(14:33) And I was like, I had a nerve issue. (14:36) My stepdad has a nerve issue. (14:38) This woman, my friend's mom had a nerve issue.
(14:41) Mine was a trauma. (14:42) Hers was a stroke. (14:43) My stepdad is an autoimmune disease.
(14:46) I'm like, there's actually nothing alike. (14:49) They're all very unique and different, but they're all problems with the nervous system. (14:53) And I know that the nervous system needs oxygen, so like, let's just try.
(14:58) And between my disc herniation, my stepdad's MS, and my friend's mom's stroke recovery, it was like, oh my God. (15:09) Like, this is something that people must not understand at all, because three very distinct issues and three very distinct people all responded, not like, ooh, I think I'm a little better, responded like life-altering transformation. (15:25) And I was like, that's it.
(15:28) Somebody's lying to me, or I don't know, but I need to get into that. (15:33) And that's really when I started diving into the science and building it out from there.
Julian Hayes II
(15:39) Yeah. (15:39) So hearing those things, and then also, I've heard other cases and a whole gamut of different issues and stuff like that. (15:50) How would you explain to someone, what's this doing to their body and their system?
(15:56) Like, what areas are being affected? (15:57) Is it just going to, like, is it just seeing, if I have an issue in this area, this is where it's going to help alleviate it, right? (16:05) Is that something like that?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(16:06) Yeah. (16:07) I mean, essentially, your body is what does the healing, right? (16:16) You cut yourself, at some point it stops bleeding, it closes, you get a scab, at some point the scab starts to shrink, flake off, and before you know it, you can't even tell where the cut was, hopefully, in most cases, right?
(16:30) But you don't tell your body to do that. (16:34) You're not thoughtful of like, okay, turn this system on, okay, turn that one off. (16:39) Like, this is all happening all on its own inside of our body.
(16:43) And there's a number of ingredients, let's just say, that allow those processes to happen. (16:51) Oxygen is not the only one by any stretch, but it is one of the most important, if not the most important, and it's one that's very limited. (17:00) Like, you can't eat your way through that.
(17:02) You can't take a supplement that will help you with that. (17:05) You can't really exercise your way through that. (17:08) Oxygen carrying capacity is limited by atmospheric pressure.
(17:13) And so, you know, if you're at, you know, in Denver, or if you're in Miami, there's some differences because there's different atmospheric pressure. (17:22) But you're really never going to find a place naturally occurring that has exceptionally higher pressure than what you and I are getting, which means, you know, if oxygen follows pressure, which it does as we bring it into our body, the more pressure that is surrounding you, the higher the driving forces of getting oxygen into your body. (17:43) The lower the pressure is, the lower the driving force.
(17:46) That's why, if you're in Denver, or you're on top of a mountain, and you're, let's say you're hiking, it's difficult to breathe. (17:53) Not because there's less oxygen, like oxygen percentage is the same everywhere. (17:58) It's because there's less pressure, and pressure is really that driving force.
(18:02) And so, a chamber just creates a temporary increased atmospheric pressure. (18:07) We can then also manipulate the oxygen percentage and get, you know, some, you know, higher levels of oxygen in there. (18:13) But it's, it's really the pressure that's the reason that hyperbaric works.
(18:17) And that is why we can create such a surplus of oxygen for the body to then have. (18:23) And we don't, we can't just put it in your elbow if you had an elbow problem, or you couldn't put it in my back for my disc herniation, or you couldn't put it in that woman's brain for her post-stroke recovery. (18:33) It goes everywhere.
(18:34) But as it's free-floating everywhere, you know, the body starts to pick up. (18:39) Oh, I have a little extra. (18:40) I could fix this old injury that never healed properly.
(18:43) Oh, I can reduce my inflammation systemically. (18:46) Oh, I could use this to improve my, my immune system function, as an example. (18:51) And so, you know, I think hyperbaric gets in trouble because, like, how could one machine cure so many things?
(18:58) I'm like, listen, it can't cure anything. (19:01) You know, let's be clear. (19:02) Hyperbaric doesn't cure anything.
(19:05) If you heal and recover, it's because your body was able to heal and recover, and the oxygen or the hyperbaric just provided an amount of that ingredient that is otherwise impossible, which allowed that healing to even occur in the first place. (19:20) It can change the environment internally to allow for healing. (19:24) That's really what it does.
Julian Hayes II
(19:26) Now, is there a difference between the chambers that are going to be used for someone, say, like my father, and at hospitals, and compared to maybe what would be one at your clinic? (19:37) Are those chambers going to be a little different?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(19:39) So, essentially, like, the mechanics are the same. (19:44) You're going to be in some, you know, a sealed container of some kind, which will be pressurized with either air only or with air and additional oxygen. (19:56) So, like, the concept is the same.
(19:59) But what I would say is we use this word hyperbaric to cover a pretty wide range of equipment. (20:08) Everything from, let's say, a soft chamber, if you've seen those, where it's literally like a soft material. (20:15) You could still pressurize it, but then we're limited.
(20:19) You know, we call that mild hyperbaric. (20:21) That can go, usually, an additional about 4, 4.2 psi. (20:25) So, another 4 psi higher or deeper than where you and I are, all the way up until, like, what would be called a diving chamber.
(20:34) So, people who, where hyperbaric really kind of got its roots was really in scuba diving accidents, in which case a diver can be injured and needs the chamber to recompress. (20:46) And so, those are six ATA chambers, which is atmosphere chambers. (20:50) So, basically, right now, I'm in Miami.
(20:53) There's an environment, right, the atmosphere around me. (20:56) We call it one ATA, one atmosphere. (20:58) So, you know, at sea level, you're at one ATA.
(21:01) In a diving chamber, you're going to go to six times that pressure. (21:05) In a clinical chamber, like one in a hospital, or even, quite honestly, the ones I use in my office, are usually three ATA chambers. (21:13) So, they're capable of up to three times atmospheric pressure.
(21:18) Most of the things that people like me use hyperbaric for when we talk about, you know, off-label use or this sort of wellness and longevity space, it's usually somewhere between 1.3 and 2. (21:31) So, that's usually the range of where people like me are sort of functioning at.
Julian Hayes II
(21:36) Okay. (21:37) I'm curious when you, you know, longevity is a big thing. (21:39) One of the big things in longevity is the various biological age markers, you know, things like stem cell regeneration, cellular repair.
(21:46) And so, to my understanding, this is all going to be beneficial in those regards.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(21:53) Yeah. (21:53) I mean, I think as we were talking earlier, you brought up performance, right? (21:59) And then we talked about your dad, you know, and the wound healing.
(22:06) When we talk about longevity, I think what we could say is a few things. (22:09) We could say that, you know, most people have chronic inflammation, unfortunately. (22:16) It's a very, very common individual, you know, isolated symptom of most of aging and chronic illness.
(22:27) Most people have some amount of mitochondrial dysfunction. (22:31) Mitochondria is the part of the cell that makes energy. (22:35) And so, when you have mitochondrial dysfunction, it means you're not able to make the amount of energy inside that cell that it needs in order to do whatever job you're asking it to do.
(22:47) And then I would say most of us are under a higher degree of stress, you know, in the, let's say, in the current world than maybe we were designed to originally. (22:58) And so, between this elevated levels of stress and the wear and tear that stress really has on (23:03) our bodies, this chronic inflammatory response, which, again, that's multifactorial from diet (23:11) through our other environmental factors, and then this mitochondrial dysfunction where we're not (23:17) making all the energy that, you know, we wish our body was able to make, you know, this sets the (23:23) stage for what I would consider to be premature aging.
(23:27) And so, I say that just to explain the idea that I believe, in general, that most humans are aging at an accelerated rate and that, you know, their level of health is much lower than it could be for, let's say, how much time they've been on the planet or for how old they are. (23:49) And, you know, I think that if we learn how to, let's say, manage stress differently or better, or if we can improve mitochondrial function, or if we can lower chronic inflammatory responses in the body, just that alone, we could start to see some shifts in people's longevity, in their quality of life, in their, you know, later years. (24:12) And so, you know, hyperbaric has about 10 to 12 mechanisms of action, like kind of anybody who goes into a chamber in a certain rate over a certain period of time should expect certain changes.
(24:25) And it just so happens that lowered inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even stress balance is something that we see very often. (24:36) So, you know, if that's all it did, I think we would see major changes in terms of this sort of anti-aging and longevity space. (24:43) But in addition to that, another one of those mechanisms happens to be upregulated growth factors and upregulated stem cells, increased in collagen synthesis, like the material that makes up our muscles, our tendons, our skin.
(24:57) So, like, you know, we call them fibroblasts, and we call them chondroblasts, but the cells that make soft tissue and the cells that make hair, skin, nails, all of this. (25:06) So, we get all of those kinds of things upregulated from hyperbaric. (25:10) And so, initially, we might get that inflammatory shift, the mitochondrial shift, the nervous system shift, but then we get all these other upregulation of, you know, factors that will improve your health, your life, your appearance.
(25:24) And so, between all of that, you know, hyperbaric. (25:26) There was a study done last year. (25:28) It was looking at, I think, 51 different, like, longevity strategies is what they call them, from diet, through exercise, through anti-synalytic medications, a whole host of different changes.
(25:42) And they were looking at healthy people and through disease metrics. (25:47) If you remove the disease metrics, and you were talking about moderately healthy people, hyperbaric was the most impactful therapy in regards to this anti-aging and longevity. (25:59) The only other two that were ahead of it were taking antiviral medication, retroviral medication, if you had HIV, and then taking something like metformin if you were a diabetic.
(26:10) So, that was, you know, first and second of impact, and then third was hyperbaric. (26:16) So, it's an incredibly powerful strategy from an anti-aging longevity standpoint.
Julian Hayes II
(26:22) Now, let's say it's, what would, how often would someone need to go? (26:27) How do you, like, determine that? (26:29) Like, how often should a person go?
(26:31) And let's say they're relatively healthy.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(26:34) Yeah. (26:34) So, I mean, it varies, like, unfortunately, really, really wide in terms of what goal do we have, right? (26:46) And if it's a health issue, how severe, how long have you had it, you know, those kinds of things.
(26:53) Or if it's just a health goal, like performance, like how lofty is that goal, and where are we starting from, you know? (27:00) And then what equipment do we have access to? (27:03) Are we using mild pressure, mid-range pressure, high pressure?
(27:06) So, kind of all of that goes into what I would consider to be a decision-making matrix to help us figure the answer to that question out. (27:15) But just to give you a range, if I can only use one protocol for the rest of my life, it would probably be, you know, four to six hours a week for eight to 10 weeks. (27:27) That's something that comes out of my mouth pretty frequently.
(27:30) So, it's pretty, as an initial exposure, there's different ways to use it for maintenance. (27:37) There's different ways to use it for wellness over a long period of time. (27:41) I mean, I've been doing this 20 years.
(27:43) Sitting right next to me is my chamber. (27:45) Like, I've had a chamber in my home for 20 years. (27:47) So, you know, I've done thousands of hours over two decades, but I, you know, I change the frequency and duration, you know, on a regular basis.
(27:58) But if somebody needs hyperbaric or wants hyperbaric for a particular, you know, solving for a particular issue, that four to six hours a week for eight to 10 weeks is pretty common as a general programming.
Julian Hayes II
(28:12) And then you, and then after those 10, after those eight to 10 weeks, you cycle, you take time, what?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(28:17) Yeah, usually you take time off, like, completely, uhm, kind of let your body, because even when you stop the therapy, because oxygen's not the treatment, right? (28:27) Oxygen's the ingredient. (28:28) So, when you, when you measure, uhm, let's say in the research, certain measurements might be like a signal that is changing, whereas the other measurement might be the result of that signal.
(28:44) So, if you're using hyperbaric, signals can change very quickly, like session one, session two, session three. (28:50) Like, you're, you're using a treatment that's, you know, turning a switch on, let's just say. (28:56) But then it takes, you know, usually weeks for the signal turning on to turn into something like, let's say healing or stem cell mobilization or something like that.
(29:07) And I say that just to say that when you pull the therapy away, let's say you finish after eight weeks, you don't just stop improving or start declining. (29:16) There's usually a continued improvement over another four to six weeks, because you've already sort of turned the momentum in the right direction. (29:26) And so now we're we're removing the therapy, but that momentum will continually build.
(29:32) And so usually you'll still see some improvement. (29:34) And then from there, it's like, just to give you some examples, if you were injured and you healed and you're like, I'm done, you don't necessarily need any more. (29:45) You could just use it for a period of time, heal and be finished.
(29:48) For something like autoimmune, let's just say, well, this doesn't cure your disease. (29:54) So if you do this protocol and you see great improvement, well, you're probably going to want to find a maintenance dose that keeps you in that place. (30:02) Right.
(30:02) So if you're if the reason you're using it has a beginning and an end, your protocol probably has a beginning and an end. (30:09) If the reason that you're using it is ongoing, well, then your usage is probably going to be ongoing just at a lower intensity.
Julian Hayes II
(30:16) Okay, that makes sense. (30:17) And so what is this I hear about? (30:19) Because, you know, as I was prepping for this, you know, some people were saying oxygen toxicity and and what are some other common mistakes that people do?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(30:27) Yeah, I mean, so oxygen toxicity is definitely real. (30:32) It's also really easy to avoid. (30:35) So like, it sounds scary, but just like any other, you know, vitamin or anything you could take too much is still too much.
(30:42) And so I guess what I would what I would preface this conversation with is, you know, I wouldn't just decide, hey, I want to try hyperbaric and just go anywhere and just do it with anyone. (30:53) I would really do your homework to make sure. (30:56) I mean, this, you know, 20 years ago, you could barely find a clinic.
(31:00) Today, although we still need more, they're obviously they're popping up. (31:03) But working with people who who have been trained, who have been certified, who know what they're doing, you know, this is really an important part of that because that's how you can avoid some of these consequences. (31:15) Other than oxygen toxicity, you know, I guess other potential like adverse reactions, you know, if you have if you're my if you have if you're myopic, you know, nearsighted, you could see that get a little bit worse while you're doing your treatments.
(31:34) But within three or four weeks of stopping, it's always reversible. (31:39) So that's like a temporary, you know, potential issue. (31:44) cataracts.
(31:45) So if you it won't cause cataracts. (31:48) But if you have cataracts, it could it could speed up the cataract maturation. (31:53) And that one's not temporary.
(31:54) So that's important. (31:55) Like, do you have them? (31:57) Are you monitoring them?
(31:58) And it doesn't happen to everybody. (32:00) And the higher pressure you go, the more advanced that would be. (32:04) But again, just it's easy to monitor, you know, just to keep an eye on it, make sure it's not getting worse, or, you know, you have to pick and choose sometimes the battles that you're going through.
(32:15) You know, outside of that, it's, I mean, it's incredibly safe. (32:19) It's incredibly relaxing. (32:20) You're literally just, in most cases, you're either sitting or laying in a really comfortable chair or on a really comfortable mattress, you have a pillow, you know, all you have to do is lay and breathe.
(32:31) So in terms of, you know, comfort, ease, it's really very, very simple. (32:37) And like I said, it's especially compared to almost any other medical treatment you could possibly think of is it's really incredibly safe to use as well.
Julian Hayes II
(32:45) Besides people certified and taught by you, what should how do we know if this person that's offering, you know, any type of therapy, hyperbarics is, is, is ideal or not?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(32:59) Yeah, I mean, I would, and I do often, you know, suggest that you ask, you know, like, because the mark. (33:09) So hyperbaric has been around for like 300 years, actually, which is crazy. (33:13) But and, you know, I got into it, let's say 20 years ago, but it's, it's only the last five years, seven years where it's like really, really taking off and growing.
(33:25) And but because of that, there have been a number of devices that are being built that are not meeting the standard for what a device needs to be built to in terms of their specifications. (33:38) And then a number of people operating chambers that have no business operating chambers. (33:43) And so, you know, I think a really simple question is like, you know, is your, is your equipment approved?
(33:50) You know, it should be, you know, FDA approved, it should be PVHO, which is pressure vessels for human occupancy, if it's a hard chamber, you know, so, you know, just asking those questions, is your equipment approved for use? (34:03) And you could ask them for documentation. (34:05) Anyone, anyone who's in this space, who's doing it right, would actually appreciate a patient being like, hey, is this thing PVHO approved?
(34:15) Can I see your plaque? (34:17) Like, they'd be like, yes, right here, you know. (34:20) Can I see your certificate?
(34:22) Like anyone who's doing this has their certificate on the wall, you know. (34:27) If they're kind of shy when you ask those questions, the likelihood that they're either using the wrong equipment or they're not certified is pretty high. (34:36) And, you know, yeah, I treat, you know, I've been training people for a number of years now.
(34:39) I think we've trained 600 people in about 300 clinics around the world. (34:45) There are others, you know, I'm, I'll be the last one to tell you that you have to come to my class. (34:51) I enjoy my classes.
(34:53) But, you know, that doesn't matter. (34:55) It just matters that you're getting the right training, and you're understanding the science, and then you're, you're applying the therapy safely, and you're applying the therapy in an effective manner so that the industry continues to grow, and that patients continue to have access to something that's, you know, so safe and so important for their recovery.
Julian Hayes II
(35:15) Yeah, and I know people in biohacking will probably always think sometimes more, more is better, and what can I combine with this? (35:22) So, are you seeing different things that people are combining with hyperbaric?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(35:26) Yeah, and, you know, I'm a big fan of synergy. (35:29) So, you know, I'm not gonna be one that says, you know, only, you can only do one thing at a time. (35:35) But I think you bring up a good point, which is like, we learn something, and we're like, ooh, this is important.
(35:40) This is good, like a vitamin. (35:41) So you take, ooh, here's another one. (35:43) And somebody else says, well, if you're taking this, you have to take this.
(35:45) You're like, oh, okay. (35:46) You know, so now you have like 11 vitamins, you know, and you started with sauna, and then you got cold plunge. (35:52) And you're like, between, between all the supplements I've taken, all the modalities that I use, like, I don't even eat food or have time to work.
(36:00) It's like overwhelming. (36:02) So, you know, and I, and I think that most of the more popular tools in particular are, they're not just, most of them are not fads. (36:11) They're popular for a reason.
(36:12) They really help people. (36:13) I use a lot of them both personally and in my office. (36:17) But I think what we always have to do is say, well, what's the goal, right?
(36:20) Like, if the goal is controlling inflammation, well, here's a number of things that work really well together. (36:28) If the goal is tissue repair and regeneration, well, here's a number of things that work really well together. (36:34) So I think we get, we get caught up in the just adding and adding and adding without really thinking through what am I trying to accomplish here.
(36:44) And I think if we do it properly, I'm trying to give you some examples, like.
Julian Hayes II
(36:49) Let's say red light.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(36:51) Yeah. (36:51) So like, let's say I want to optimize for mitochondrial function, right? (36:56) So I want to, I want to maximize my energy production.
(36:59) I'm like, okay, well, what are all the ingredients for energy production? (37:03) Well, NAD or FAD, you know, but so supplementing NAD precursors, NAD sub-Q, NAD IV, fasting, being in ketosis, all of those things would affect, you know, the NAD levels. (37:21) CoQ10 is a big part of that system.
(37:23) Red light is a huge part of that system. (37:26) Oxygen is one of the most important rate limiting steps to that system. (37:29) Hydrogen.
(37:30) So, you know, drinking or breathing hydrogen gas, that's an important part of that system. (37:35) So you're like, okay, mitochondrial function, here's a, here's a protocol, right? (37:39) Hyperbaric, red light, CoQ10, methylene blue has an incredible impact on the mitochondria itself.
(37:46) So like, you know, that could be perfect if it was more like, well, I'm trying to control inflammation. (37:52) Okay. (37:52) Well, hyperbaric does that.
(37:55) But now maybe why don't we use also some hydrogen and some peptides like BPC-157 and TB-500, right? (38:03) So, you know, they're all, they're all incredible tools. (38:07) It's all about either, either stacking them because you have a very specific issue and you're understanding how they play a role in that issue or you're stacking them.
(38:19) Like what I do when I don't have any issues, which is thankfully most of the time, you know, I, every quarter I tweak my programming. (38:26) So it's not like I do hyperbaric four to six times a week for 20 years, my whole life like this. (38:32) It's like for this quarter, hyperbaric, red light, and you know, let's say methylene blue, like, you know, I'll do that for roughly like a quarter.
(38:45) And then I'll, I'll shift my red light for sauna. (38:48) I'll shift my hyperbaric for a cold plunge. (38:51) So now I'm getting like some temperature regulation, you know, and I'll switch my supplements and maybe I'll do some, you know, B12 and some, you know, GHKCU or as a peptide, you know, like you want to be thoughtful when you're putting these together so that you're not ranting.
(39:09) First of all, you're not wasting money and time and that you're not randomly combining things that don't even really work well together necessarily. (39:15) So there's a, there's a strategic way to get it done, I think.
Julian Hayes II
(39:20) Yeah. (39:20) I always emphasize people get their sequencing and think about the sequencing of everything. (39:25) And I think that's one of the most important things is just the sequence of everything.
(39:29) And then, so, because a lot of times I think, especially the more high performing or high charging individual, they want to go from zero to 100. (39:37) Right. (39:38) A lot of times.
(39:39) And sometimes that's just, that's just not ideal and conducive to their goal. (39:44) Right. (39:44) It's like someone trying to do from the couch to start doing ultra marathons.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(39:50) Right.
Julian Hayes II
(39:51) Yeah.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(39:51) Right. (39:51) There's no, there's a couch to 5k program. (39:54) There's no, there's no couch to a hundred mile program.
Julian Hayes II
(39:56) Yeah. (39:57) Cause even myself before, you know, the, I did the ultras, I had to like work myself up because it was quite a, it was quite a shock to my system and everything. (40:05) And so, and I, I think about training, you know, for myself, I have certain periods where it's higher training.
(40:11) So it's more hours of training. (40:12) And then I have certain periods where it's a little more on the recovery side of things, of my diagram. (40:17) And then kind of like what you mentioned with the oxygen during that time, what I noticed is there's an effect that I'm still going to get improvements.
(40:23) So when I go back out there later, I'm much faster and I'm much stronger because I've allowed my body to heal and give it the right nutrients and same thing with the, with the oxygen therapy. (40:34) So for yourself, what's, what's a typical training regimen for you? (40:38) I know you, you mentioned that you changed things up.
(40:40) So I guess like, what are you doing right now?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(40:42) As far as like my, my little routine?
Julian Hayes II
(40:45) Yeah. (40:46) Yeah.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(40:47) So so it's fall. (40:50) So for me, I've also tried to find my own rhythms and like, why do the same things happen to me at similar times of year and such? (41:01) Like I'm always just looking for patterns in my life so that I can offset them.
(41:06) So fall for my wife and I fall is always incredibly busy. (41:10) There's business changes, you know, kids getting back to school. (41:13) Like, so there's just like a routine that's embedded into my, you know, everyone's life, but I kind of have a good feel for what mine looks like these days.
(41:22) And, you know, summer is usually a lot of travel. (41:24) So getting back from a lot of travel and getting back into routine and trying to offset sort of, you know, what I know my fall is going to be like. (41:33) So I'm doing, I do a cluster of hyperbaric.
(41:38) So for me, when I say a cluster, it's almost every day, but it'll only be for about three weeks. (41:45) So I'll do about two hours a day, as close to six or seven days a week as I can for about three weeks and just get a really significant, but relatively short, you know, burst of that. (41:57) When I'm doing that, I also have MTHFR issues.
(42:01) So I take, you know, specific forms of B12 and I often do like methylcobalamin, you know, B12 shots. (42:09) So I'm in right now, I'm in a methylene blue sauna, B12 and hyperbaric routine. (42:20) That'll be like pretty much September.
(42:22) In October, I will still do some hyperbaric, but I'll drop it to like once a week really, just more of like a maintenance after that cluster. (42:32) And then I was planning on doing like a round of gut related support. (42:39) So I was going to do like a mini cleanse, you know, we do a lot of different detoxes, so like heavy metals and that kind of stuff.
(42:47) But this one for me was just going to be more of like a generic sort of liver and intestinal kind of cleanse. (42:53) Again, hyperbaric is not a detox tool, but if hyperbaric upregulates cellular performance, you know, we see, we do hyperbaric, let's say if someone's doing a heavy metal detox or a intestinal cleanse, if you upregulate your cellular function, you'll see a boost in how well your body or how efficient your body is able to detox. (43:17) So that's why I'm not dropping it after that cluster, but I'm just keeping enough in there to kind of push through some of that detox programming that I plan to do later fall.
Julian Hayes II
(43:27) Makes sense. (43:28) And so you mentioned THFR, and so I imagine you've done genetic tests at some point and things like that. (43:33) Yeah.
(43:34) Is there any research about like oxygen pressure and genetic expressions or anything like that?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(43:41) So the research that I did as part of the PhD program, we did do, you mentioned like other biological aging metrics and things like that. (43:50) The company that we used, which was True Diagnostics, on the consumer side, they have got a really great, easy to understand like biological aging metric and report. (44:03) And on the research side, they have a very, very robust database of all of these different epigenetic markers and what they mean.
(44:12) And, you know, there's a lot of people in this longevity regenerative space using them, adding to this sort of this database of which devices are shifting our epigenetics one way or the other. (44:26) So we got, I mean, I got a tremendous amount of information from that part. (44:32) Quite honestly, I'm even publishing a couple of papers from that component of the research soon.
(44:38) And I still probably haven't gone, maybe I'm 35, 40% of the way through. (44:43) There's so much data in these reports. (44:46) But what I could say is, you know, yeah, we saw changes in genes that regulate inflammation.
(44:53) So we know that it reduces inflammation, but we didn't really know why. (44:57) We knew that it shifted energy production, but we didn't necessarily know why. (45:02) We knew that it, let's say, a lot of shift, like cognitive, like clarity, memory, but we didn't always know why.
(45:11) So now all of a sudden, I have a whole list of genes and epigenetic switches that have been modified, you know, through these hyperbaric protocols. (45:21) So the answer is yes, but I think, I still think we only know maybe this much about hyperbaric. (45:27) We only know like now this much about, you know, all the epigenetic and genetic, but I believe, and I'm hopeful, that that's where the future of this kind of research is going to go.
Julian Hayes II
(45:40) Yeah. (45:40) And I'm interested to see that as well, because even with True Diagnostic, that's who I use, they now have organ-specific now, right? (45:47) So they've even broken it down even further.
(45:50) And so now when you do that research, you're going to even get to see specifically, probably, how does this affect, you know, the liver compared to...
Dr. Jason Sonners
(45:58) Right. (45:58) How does it affect the liver or intestines or, yeah, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(46:02) Yeah. (46:02) So I think, so that's why it's such a, it feels like there's a lot that's already been shared, but in actuality, when you really look at it, it's still very much in its infancy.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(46:12) Yeah. (46:13) I think we've barely, we have barely scratched the surface, you know, and I don't know about you, but for me, there's so much we can do, I'll say just naturally, like even oxygen, like most people don't even know how to breathe properly, right? (46:32) So like, you know, what could we do to just start the process for people of learning how to take better care of themselves?
(46:42) And then which tools can we sort of stack or layer on top of that over time? (46:47) And can we create programming that's like the least invasive possible thing that we can start with, right? (46:56) With the lowest effective dose and only build as much as somebody needs to get the result that they're looking for.
(47:03) To your point earlier, like more is not better. (47:06) In fact, oftentimes, not in hyperbaric, but also outside of hyperbaric, more is actually less likely to be beneficial. (47:14) If anything, the answer to all of these things isn't more of the thing.
(47:19) It's just more time. (47:22) Most people don't give it enough time. (47:25) You know, they want the biggest, you know, the biggest impact is shortest period of time.
(47:29) And like biology doesn't work like that. (47:31) Biology, just like you can, you know, I can go down the street and eat McDonald's. (47:38) And I don't immediately get poisoned.
(47:41) Well, no, maybe. (47:42) But you know what I mean? (47:43) Like, because it takes time, you have to eat the wrong thing for years and years to break down and develop.
(47:49) But the same thing on health, you have to do the right thing for years and years for it to build up enough to make a dent and move the needle the way we want it to, you know?
Julian Hayes II
(47:58) Yeah, that's the tough part about health that I would say for people, especially now, because I, you can go, like you mentioned, like, I could go out and just treat my body like trash for the next two weeks, and there won't be a huge difference. (48:14) Now, for me, I'm very in tune with myself. (48:16) So there's a feeling that I know I won't have.
(48:19) But for the most part, you're not going to just say, Oh, I can't fit in my jacket anymore. (48:22) I can't fit in these jeans. (48:23) That's not going to happen, right?
(48:25) So it's almost like a death by 1000 cuts is why, you know, there's this old saying where like during the holiday season, somebody might put on eight to 10 pounds, but then maybe seven or eight is going to come off. (48:36) So it's only a two pound gain. (48:37) But consistently doing that over the years, right?
(48:40) You're looking at 10 and 20. (48:42) And then how did I get here?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(48:45) Right?
Julian Hayes II
(48:45) Yeah.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(48:46) And so that's, you know, like what, you know, I used to have patients, they would be like, we would, you know, we, they come to me in September, right? (48:52) And we, let's say they have to have massive diet change as part of their, you know, whatever their protocol needs to be. (48:58) And they're like, Yeah, but this isn't a great time.
(49:00) Because there's, you know, there's some holidays and some, you know, Halloween, I'm gonna probably have some candy. (49:06) And then there's Thanksgiving and Christmas, or I'm like, okay, so we're gonna not, you just mentioned, I don't know, six holidays. (49:16) You know, let's say you had two meals at each of those holiday, we're talking like 12 meals.
(49:22) So you're, you're not going to start something today. (49:26) Right? (49:26) Whereas like 95% of that period of time, you could be doing great.
(49:33) And those 12 meals aren't going to derail you. (49:36) But the next three or four months of doing nothing, that will just continue, right, you're just going to continue getting sicker and sicker. (49:43) So it's like the, the, the hardest part of being in practice is that it's the mindset, and the education, and the and the processing for, for people who have real health issues to really understand that this is a it's a I mean, I mean, you're you run long races, right?
(50:03) Like, it's a marathon. (50:05) It's not a sprint.
Julian Hayes II
(50:06) Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's never been easier to be healthier and fitter. (50:11) There's so many resources, there's so many tools, there's so many things to really expedite the journey. (50:16) But it's never been more difficult to stick with these things, because you're inundated.
(50:21) I mean, for me, I'm on LinkedIn, and everybody's having a massive exit, seemingly easy. (50:27) So, you know, it just makes it seem like, oh, man, this business comes so easy for people and everything. (50:32) And you see this on Instagram, I'm sure with health, man, this person's in super shape.
(50:35) And, you know, they did it so easy and everything, right? (50:38) So there's this big grand illusion going on that we don't really we don't really get to see what's going on behind the scenes of how long things actually took to actually come to this or the work required or the sacrifices.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(50:49) We should we should start a new social media. (50:51) That's the opposite. (50:52) There's the grind, the health grind, the business grind, you know, I think it would be true.
Julian Hayes II
(50:59) I think it would be interesting. (51:01) I think it would be interesting, because I actually, I, I find it freeing. (51:06) One of the best things was like, when a guy was telling me how to get in really good shape a long time ago, he's like, you can you can shorten it.
(51:13) But you can start doing two a days and be really be really on your diet for three months. (51:17) Or you can maybe do six months and, you know, maybe not maybe have a little more freedom. (51:23) So which way do you want?
(51:24) I was like, Okay, I like that. (51:26) I did the three. (51:27) But I at least knew up front that, right?
(51:30) If you want these results, right? (51:32) Yeah. (51:33) Everything needs to be dialed in more.
(51:35) So you're going to give up some funds, you're going to give up some, you know, some lounging around and things like that, if you want this kind of result that quick, right? (51:41) So it's all how quick do you want your dream has to equate to how much work you want to put in and how much resources you want to put to that. (51:49) Right.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(51:49) And I think with health, you know, it's like, there's an expectation that as you age, you just lose it. (51:57) Because that's what we've seen. (51:59) Right?
(51:59) We've seen our parents and our grandparents just declining health over time. (52:04) But I think it's happening. (52:05) If you're not taking care of yourself, it's happening faster than it's ever happened.
(52:08) It's happening earlier than it's ever happened. (52:11) And, you know, I think people just even COVID, like I think COVID, which kind of started the conversation we were having earlier, but for those of for those people either interested in health or right on the edge, it was like a wake up call, like, sicker people did way worse with COVID than healthier people. (52:37) And the things that people had to be sick with were usually like metabolic disease, or like these chronic illnesses, which lifestyle has a tremendous amount of control over.
(52:47) And so, you know, being an active part of your healthcare process, you there's almost no one who on this planet, who couldn't be healthier than they are today in five years from now.
Julian Hayes II
(53:00) And even just getting outside, I saw certain cities, which I'm sorry, if you're listening to one of those cities, and it affected you, but you're locked in your house and your apartment, the sun is one of the best healers, just getting outside in the morning is one of the easiest, freest things you could do to dramatically help your health. (53:18) Absolutely something. (53:19) And that was taken away.
(53:20) And so that's, that's, that was the most frustrating part for me is that people were kept captive inside, that they couldn't get outside for fresh air and all those things. (53:31) You know, so speaking of Miami, Miami, during my trip there, I noticed Nashville's lacking on this. (53:37) I saw I will admit on this in terms of like wellness and health, Nashville's behind on that.
(53:41) We have fun here. (53:43) But it's a little behind on that thing. (53:45) I every corner I turned in Miami was like, social was like wellness, wellness, all this wellness.
(53:51) And it was very inspiring. (53:53) Even when I went for a run there. (53:55) Way more people out running, like six in the morning compared to here.
(53:59) So you come from New Jersey, I believe, compared to Miami, and the wellness thing. (54:05) What do you think about the wellness scene in Miami? (54:07) Like what's been like, really eye opening for you?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(54:09) Yeah, you know, part of it when I first I thought maybe it was just the weather to you know, people are, you know, let's say in Jersey, like, people start getting ready for the summer, you know, so like, they tighten their diet, and they increase their exercise in March, you know, and then they sort of let it slide in October. (54:27) And I guess you don't have that here. (54:30) It's like, you're, it's always sort of summer, right.
(54:34) And so I think people that might be one of the motivating factors. (54:39) But I was and I was at an event, I think it was right before this time, probably like May, and the mayor was at the event, and giving a speech and he on it wasn't even a health related event. (54:53) But he said something and to the point of like, in his vision of like, where the city was going, it was all about broadening the business offerings and sort of like the finance world, and becoming the wellness capital of the world.
(55:09) He actually said that that was part of his goal. (55:12) And I think I didn't realize that. (55:14) But I'm like, wow, you know, it really, for me, it does show I'm like, there, there are so many efforts in this area.
(55:22) Some I agree with some I disagree with, that doesn't matter. (55:25) It's that there's a clear focus on, you know, trying to improve and maintain your health. (55:33) And, you know, it is one of for me, that's like, to live in a place where so many people share, you know, health being such a core value.
(55:42) That's, that's been an incredible experience for us.
Julian Hayes II
(55:46) Yeah, no, I think it I think it has a chance to because like I said, you're already forward thinking with it's already pretty much the crypto capital of the world. (55:54) In terms of or maybe not the world, but at least in the US.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(55:57) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(55:59) And so a lot of times that forward thinkingness is going to bleed into other areas as well. (56:05) And so and plus, you're going to eventually get a talent drain of places like from New York, places from California. (56:12) So they're going to want to go somewhere else.
(56:15) Right now, I would probably say Austin, maybe the wellness capital, maybe I would think, maybe Austin, I think, you know, at least as far as like, collective mind.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(56:27) Yeah, like collective mindset. (56:29) And, you know, it's definitely, definitely there right there. (56:34) If not the Yeah, I would agree.
Julian Hayes II
(56:36) Yeah, like, like, we're a big healthcare place in Nashville and Tennessee. (56:40) But healthcare is different than like a wellness hub, right? (56:43) You know, so we're thinking about diseases all the time and, and health and, you know, healthcare insurance and all that kind of stuff.
(56:50) We have big healthcare insurance providers here and stuff. (56:52) So as a totally different ballgame, right? (56:56) So I'm curious, what are you most excited about for the rest of the year?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(57:01) For the rest of the year, we have a lot of this year closed for me, anyway, this year closes with a couple really big conferences with some cool travel. (57:13) So, you know, having done this now for for a long time, and, you know, the US and I think this is true in a lot of other areas in health. (57:20) And I think it's true even outside of the health world, but the US is just, just generally ahead of a lot of the world.
(57:27) And as hyperbaric grows, you know, I get called into different areas. (57:32) So we have a couple and when I travel, we try to travel as a family. (57:37) So I have three kids.
(57:38) And we try to make like a travel school out of it when we go. (57:43) And so we have a couple trips to Denmark and to Sweden. (57:49) And then also to Spain and Morocco.
(57:52) Most of it is for me to teach and, you know, be a part of some really big conferences and educate people and educate doctors. (58:00) But then I'm, I'm excited to do that. (58:03) But I love to travel with my family and kind of have them be a part of that whole journey with us too.
(58:10) So yeah, that's how our year ends up.
Julian Hayes II
(58:14) I imagine you're giving them a unique education as well as a kid to go to these different, to go to these different places, be exposed to different cultures, different languages. (58:22) And then also as parents, what you're doing right now, you're creating this culture of health.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(58:27) Right. (58:27) I mean, the, so the reason we moved to Miami was for them. (58:32) We found a school that they were going to go to.
(58:35) I was doing the PhD program in Miami, but it was predominantly virtual, although I was going back and forth, but the school that we found, you know, it's like a strong entrepreneur spirit, very heavy on the health front. (58:48) They have a farm that feeds the kids all their lunches. (58:51) They, you know, water filtration system, like it's a whole, so like even the school is sort of built around this, um, really strong sort of foundation of like wellness, uh, independent thought entrepreneurism, you know?
(59:06) So, uh, it's pretty cool.
Julian Hayes II
(59:08) Wow. (59:09) See, I might have to move to Miami even more now. (59:12) When that time comes, if we don't get this in Tennessee, then, you know, that's, that's another reason to pull out.
(59:17) Cause I think that's the best thing. (59:19) That's one of the biggest gripes I had with kind of just even my education and all that is like, I really, I really wish they emphasize more of a critical thinking and not just how to, how to take this test and move on to the next thing. (59:31) So I think that's fantastic that you're doing that.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(59:33) Yeah. (59:33) Thank you.
Julian Hayes II
(59:34) So, um, but yeah, um, I really enjoyed your time here, time here today, just conversating and everything. (59:40) And so where can listeners keep up with you at and all your listeners?
Dr. Jason Sonners
(59:44) Yeah. (59:44) So, um, I mean, you know, I've written a few books, uh, we maintain a YouTube. (59:49) So the YouTube channel is probably the most current, uh, it was about, I don't know, 650 some odd videos and lots of topics.
(59:55) Most of it's pretty short. (59:56) So it's like digestible in, in small chunks, but anything from hyperbaric, what is it? (1:00:01) How does it work?
(1:00:02) What's the science? (1:00:03) Is it good for this? (1:00:03) Is it good for that?
(1:00:04) What's dangerous? (1:00:05) What's not, you know, there's a, there's a lot built into that, but I also go over a lot of stacking protocols with other things that we were talking like with methylene blue, with red light, with NAD. (1:00:15) Um, so there's, I mean, I think there's a lot of really good information in there and, and I, you know, I put out a video a week and that's up to date and very current.
(1:00:23) Um, I had written a book, uh, Oxygen Under Pressure, which is like an easy read and a little bit more on my philosophy of health, but also like where hyperbaric fits that, um, paradigm. (1:00:34) HBOT USA is the name of the, um, that's the name of the YouTube channel. (1:00:37) It's also the, our main website, hbotusa.com.
(1:00:40) We don't sell anything there, but it's just a good resource again, for more information about hyperbaric. (1:00:45) We also have a bunch of locations. (1:00:46) So not all, but some of the clinics that I've trained are, are, and we maintain a close relationship are there.
(1:00:52) So if you're looking for hyperbaric and you don't know where to go, that locations list is a great place to start. (1:00:58) Um, but all of our courses and other things that, uh, live online or is, is at the vhbotcourse.com. (1:01:06) And so, um, but I, I welcome questions.
(1:01:09) I welcome comments. (1:01:11) Um, I just love to help share the information that I have and, and even to learn from everybody who asks questions that I haven't, uh, have the answer to yet.
Julian Hayes II
(1:01:20) Yeah. (1:01:20) We could easily make this a two hour conversation. (1:01:22) Cause I didn't even, I had, I had notes here to get into the book and we didn't even get into that.
(1:01:26) So, um, maybe we'll, maybe, maybe we'll do a part two, maybe.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(1:01:29) Yeah, for sure.
Julian Hayes II
(1:01:30) We'll do it. (1:01:30) We'll do it in person in Miami at the clinic or something.
Dr. Jason Sonners
(1:01:32) I love that. (1:01:33) That's, that's a plan.
Julian Hayes II
(1:01:35) So we'll do something like that. (1:01:36) And I'll have all these things that he meant to these resources that he mentioned in the show notes. (1:01:40) And so for listeners out there, stay awesome, be limitless and as always optimize today so you can lead tomorrow.
(1:01:45) Peace.
